F104 is going through very serious problems

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
66

look.

the missile is not mediocre at all. thats objectively a false statement the best non IRCCM IR missile in game and can even breadcrumb incredibly well.

as ive just said, its not the missile that sucks, its the platform, ive got 9Ls mounted on my GR7 rn and they certainly make it far easier to use, the missiles have netted me a fair few kills in GRB and ARB due to the fact they are incredibly good missiles.

to state that the AIM9L missile is mediocre is just wrong, the F104 that has it mounted on it is what is mediocre, not the missile.

dont get it mixed up, one statement means the missile is useless, the other means that the platform the missile is on is useless meaning the missile cannot be used to its full effect.

and btw im not saying the f104 is justified where they are, im just correctign that the missile isnt what sucks but the platform

67

sorry, didnt realize what i said. I meant even i will admit that the 9l is by far a medicore missile… lol. The chinese have the best non irccm missiles, personally anyway, but the 9l is still amazing. Do i think it should be seeing 9.7s and bellow, of course not and the a10s should be moved up to 11.0 along with su 25s in order to allow super sonid jet figthers to be moved up from 9.3 like the f104. Do i think jets at 10.0 and above could see 9ls, yes as a majority of them have flares and the ones that dont have the fm to keep away and perhaps dodge them if their good enough.

The asa should be 11.3 in my eyes with the s being 11.0. They are not all that different, with one having 4 9ls while the other has 6 9js. And the rwr is a msssive factor. There is no way the viggen is seen as worse than the asa in any aspect.

68

the other F104s i cant really comment on ive always known they were in a bad place before the changes to the FM, however, that doesnt excuse the fact that the F104A and C can completely dominate 9.0. 8.7 8.3 and even up to 9.7, the F104C can use rockets as flares, the F104A can use the 9Bs to overcome all aspects in head on, there is nothing say a swift f1 or a mig17 can do reliably to an F104, mig19, etc.

we all sit and shout about what jet or tank is better or worse, objectively the entire gamei s compressed to death, and we need even more decompression, the F4 phantom should never be seeing gripens for example.
edit we need to stop pushing stuff down, and start spreading the BRs out and up, the F104 ASA etc would be fine at 12.0 if it wasnt .3 off of the F14 for example.

69

I mean, this thread said at the start that the f104a/c should just be assumed to be op anyway as its at way too low of a br. but im more on about the 2 that simply see 12.3 and above every game due to the f14s for one but also because gaijin love to make you see more uptiers than downtiers for whatever reason.

3 Likes
70

hence why im saying, rather than push the other F104s back down, why not push the stuff thats at the top further up?

like the JX35C being at 11.3 while the viggen, with a PD radar, Skyflash, better gun, arguably a better platform is the exact same BR.

They changed a whole rake of BRs of things, nerfed Fms etc, without even looking at it overall, now you have two moods for the F104, the higher BR ones that can see F14s and mirages, and are basically flying piñatas, and then you have the lower BR ones which are all but uncontested at their BRs due to them shifting all the 10.0s away, APART from the all aspect missile slinging ground attackers, which were the cause of the issue.

the game is horrifically compressed, and while i love the changes they made, they need to continue to make them and push more things up, especially in ARB, like the yak38, realistically most 8.3s can kill it, however its armed with up to 4x r60s , it should not be 9.3 at all.

the F104S TAS? ASA all of the ones at their respective BRs shouldnt go down the way, the stuff above them that causes them to be useless, should be moved further up in BR. E.G the F14, mirage 2k etc.
sorry for the wall of text!

72

That’s the main problem.this game abuses uptier to make the unhappy pay. With the false illusion that further uptier they will be top tier 😂.

73

thank the russian whiners constantly getting made because they now have to try to get a kill vs a plane they can’t just out turn.

74

Vulnerable target to whom?

If you’re notching a phoenix/F90 all the enemies are at least 30km away from you, that’s more than enough time to regain your speed and positioning.

76

Are you satisfied with how gaijin “balances” the game by only caring about specific stats with no nuance or context? If not, do you think somehow the F-104 will be different?

77

F-104 hebben een serieus probleem…

1 Like
78

??? there is no specific group of players driving balance decisions by complaining. This is a myth driven by ppl because its easy to accept without thinking

79

F-104 would have to detect the missile with its poor RWR first, and you’d also have to notch successfully by eye without RWR assistance

1 Like
80

Calm down he does not see it much 8.3 careless, against 10.0 he only has his 1vs1 turn. Do you know what happens? There are actually 16 aircraft

81

Did i say i was satisfied? Hell even in this thread somewhere ive stated we need decompression, rebalance of many, many jets, props and even ground vehicles.

As well as this, its not without nuance, they balance according to how the vehicle performs statistically over all the players that use said vehicles.

Hence why the kfir and JX35 went to 11.3 as their scores were artificially pumped up due to the use of rocket striking bases.

No, over all id like to see vehicles balanced on their capabilities and over all performance thats why the brs exist in the first place, not as place holders to cause compression which people seem to completely forget.

The way gaijin currently balances the game, isnt balanced at all.

What can an 8.3 do against an arriete, mig19, yak38 with r60s. Or even the 104.

What can the 104s at 11.0/11.3 do against mirage 2ks, f14s etc.

No im not happy with how its balanced, but these threads of people demanding, 1 or 2 vehicle’s suffer, or are op, etc are beyond tiresome.

The whole system does not work.

(Dont get me started on again mig15/saber vs me262) or how they went against their own balancing system to move the mk24 spit cown to 6.7 to avoid the mig15 and saber.

No im.not happy with the system. But it does have some merits.

82

What the hell does this even mean 😂 i already said thst the mig19 isnt great in the 16v16 lobbies.

But dudes making out it seeing 10.0 is an issue when yhe mig 19 is under brd af.

83

I mean you answered yourself.
It is a good 9.3 but 90% of the time it is at 10.0.
It spins and maintains energy well but against 16 enemies it is not effective.

84

Yeah that is a problem in of itself

2 Likes
85

It certainly is effective and can effecfively kite 5 people , i just mean its not able to play how it would in a 1v1 which is to bleed the enemy, however thr mig19 certainly stomps every single 10.0 in game right now bar in tbe missile department.

All of these jets used to be 10.0 before the a10 and su25 woth all aspects forced them down.

So, no the mig19 is not struggling against 10.0s at all. Though it isnt easy to fly either dont get me wrong it needs to be played a specific way, but if you play it that way youre nearly untouchable.

86

Same as the mirage f1 ?? Its not that bad to notch the f14, dont fly straight towards the enemy at the start n you usually dont come across the missiles any way.

The issue is the f104 fm now just cannot compete even in a slight uptier, its not got that speed advantage at that br, and now its been butchered it cannot fight at all.

Its not just rwr n missiles.

87

It is void of nuance and context. They only care about specific stats and don’t try to find out why said stats are the way they are, they just use knee jerk flow charts and algorithms to arbitrarily place vehicles around. You go on to say later in this comment that they uptiered the J35XS, a fighter jet, because it was gaining too much SCORE. They BALANCE vehicles based around how much SCORE you get and not how GOOD those vehicles actually are. They also make rash decisions without any foresight shown here blatantly by what they did to the J35XS.