F-8P, the "Crouz"

[Would you like to see this in-game?]
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

Hello everyone and welcome to this new suggestion!

Today I’m presenting a new aircraft for the French armed forces, an aircraft that was already completely outdated even before it entered service: the F-8P.

In the late 1980s, the French Navy used various types of fighter aircraft from its aircraft carriers: the Étendard IV P for reconnaissance, the Super Étendard for ground attack, the Alizé for anti-submarine warfare, and the F-8E (FN) for air defense. While most of these aircraft were perfectly capable of performing their missions, the F-8E was already outdated and had been for years, as the Navy had never updated or improved them. Not having a sufficiently advanced air defense fighter to protect the naval task force, and facing this critical situation, the naval staff looked for a temporary solution to upgrade its fleet while awaiting the highly anticipated Rafale Marine (an option to purchase American F/A-18s was considered, but French industry lobbied for a French solution). The decision was therefore to modernize 17 F-8Es into F-8Ps, allowing them to remain in service for another ten years until the arrival of the Rafale Marine.

The modernization of the F-8 began in the early 1990s, and the first modified aircraft (serial number 35) was tested in 1993 aboard the aircraft carrier Clemenceau, after which it immediately entered service. The other modified aircraft were delivered shortly thereafter (the last delivery being in 1997). While this modernized version offered significant improvements over the original, it was still not up to the challenges of the time. Although a SHERLOC radar warning receiver was installed, the F-8P remained without any countermeasures, rendering it incapable of defending itself against enemy threats (it should be noted that at the same time, various navies around the world were using Sea Harriers, AV-8Bs, and F/A-18Cs armed with AIM-120 missiles). The aircraft was nevertheless deployed to numerous operational theaters, particularly in the Adriatic Sea, to protect French aircraft carriers from potential air threats. The “Crouz” was finally retired from service in 1999 after nearly 35 years of service with the French Navy (the last user of the aircraft).

Characteristics
  • Length : 16.61 m

  • Wingspan : 10.72 m

  • Height : 4.80 m

  • Mass :

    • Min : 9,000 kg
    • Max : 13,000 kg

The aircraft is powered by a Pratt & Whitney J57-P-20 jet engine, which allows it to reach a maximum speed of Mach 1.8 and an altitude of 50,000 feet. Its operational range is 1,500 nautical miles, which it can cover in 2.5 hours.

Equipment
  • Radar :

    • AN/APQ 104 : The radar used is still the same as in the original version; this search radar, despite its limited capabilities, is still able to guide the missile’s seeker onto the locked-on target.
  • RWR :

    • Sherlock : The Sherlock RWR system is the same one used on the Super Etendard aircraft; it allows for the effective detection of enemy threats.

image

image

Weapons

The aircraft’s armament is rather limited; in fact, the R 530 and R 530E missiles had been withdrawn from the French arsenal at the end of the 1980s/ early 1990s (due to a disastrous success rate). Therefore, the F-8P does not carry any radar-guided missiles. However, it was decided to integrate the Matra Magic 2 missiles to enhance its combat capabilities.

  • Guns :

    • 4 x 20mm Colt Browing
  • Missiles :

    • 2 x Matra Magic 1
    • 2 x Matra Magic 2

In the French tech tree, the F-8P would be an interesting addition following the base version of the aircraft, offering a fighter plane with greater capabilities, but still quite limited in combat effectiveness due to its lack of countermeasures.

Pictures

image


image
image
image


image
image

Video

Démo Alpha Crusader F8 E(FN)P - JPO BAN de Landivisiau le 29/06/1997
F 8 Crusader. Last duo Display At RIAT Fairford 1999
Vought F-8P Crusader
Le ballet des crusaders
F-8FN Crusader in action, French Navy

Sources
8 Likes

Didn’t know this existed, an F-8 with magic 2s.

1 Like

Give it ahistorical (but technically possible) AN/ALE-29 countermeasure dispensers. Put it at 11.7. Done.

1 Like

11.7? Idk know about that

Too low or too high? Jaguar IS is 11.3 with 2x Magic 2s.

F-8P maybe better at 12.0? 12.3 probably too high when you have the F-16A there with 6x AIM-9Ls.

Only 2 missiles bro

Eeeeesh, don’t see it being added without ahistorical CMs realistically so hope it comes with them.

1 Like

Same as the Jaguar IS, which is worse than it in every way at 11.3. It makes the most sense there when comparing it to other vehicles.

+1 quite interesting

They’re literally not possible because it requires great amounts of software modification and airframe modification.

If it fets CMs, US should get an F-8P or even their own F-8H with a “theoretical, but possible” Sherloc and Magic 2s.

1 Like

i am gonna say yes, but only if it gets given flares

“No sht sherlock” I say as radar missile proceeds to obliterate my forehead.

+1 but im not sure how it would work without CMs.

2 Likes

11.0, Rank VII. Which is I guess one of the reasons we skipped this because it is worse than any 11.3 and above but for any 10.0 it faces is a guaranteed kill

I would challenge you on “literally not possible.” Just because it was never done on the -P doesn’t mean it was outside the realm of possibility. Many other versions of the F-8 carried CMs.

Obviously, there would need to be software upgrades. But the F-8P program took place in the '90s. Surely they had the expertise to make it happen in a hypothetical situation.

Also, the countermeasure dispensers are mounted in external fairings near the tailcone on the F-8C & F-8E in game. I don’t see why installing these would require a “great amount” of airframe modification. Seems like it would be a relatively simple one compared to the other major components of the F-8P upgrade program.

Also, the US shouldn’t get a -P variant since it was an exclusively French upgrade program. The US could get an F-8J that incorporated many of the features of the F-8E(FN)…but it would have AIM-9G & maybe AIM-9L, not Magic 2.

EDIT: Just realized you may be talking specifically about how the AN/ALE-29 dispensers aren’t possible. I am not 100% certain on the specific type the F-8E uses, but I think it is AN/ALE-29. Regardless, my comments about the mounting in external fairings above still applies!

I didn’t mean that it would be impossible to install IRL, I mean it should be impossible for the F-8P to get CM dispensers in-game because not only did the F-8 require software changes, it required airframe modification (the CM dispenser are NOT external, they are built in, unlike on the F-104G and F-5C which are external) so that writes it off by Gaijin’s standards.

Now, if the F-8P would to receive these CMs, at least a single US F-8 should receive the same treatment and get Magic 2s (and Sherloc RWR) which would be a fair deal, but I’d like to stick to how the US actually thought about flares on their own F-8s and keep it that way.

1 Like

First off, I am totally wrong about the location of the CM dispensers…which only took some brief Googling. My bad.

That said, the US F-8E in game features countermeasures. Early versions of the F-8E did not mount them. This means the dispensers had to be retrofitted. Again, this puts it easily in the realm of possibility for the F-8P.

Gaijin’s general track record regarding countermeasures is mixed. They removed ahistorical flares from the Yak-28, but have left them on the F-5C. As you mentioned, the difference in the dispensers for the F-5C is that they are external. I personally don’t see how giving an aircraft equipment that it could carry but didn’t is any different just because it is external vs. internal. The external dispensers would still need to be bolted on, which is technically an airframe modification…just less extensive of one than mounting internal dispensers.

I still don’t see the logic behind giving the US tree an F-8 with Magics and Sherloc RWR??? This isn’t something that existed outside of maybe a US-based factory. Why would the US tree get this instead of an F-8J with updated American RWR and AIM-9G/L? To me, this is a much bigger leap of the imagination than giving the F-8P CMs that are technically possible for balance reasons.

Magic 2 and Sherloc on US F-8s is literally the same type of imagination as CMs on French F-8s, actually less so because it only required software changes (for Magic 2) unlike CMs which required structural modification.

You say that Magic 2s were only possible outside a US factory, but the same applies to the CM dispensers, which were only possible in a US factory?? Do you not see the hypocrisy?

Anyways, for Gaijin, structural modificiation is generally a no-go, meaning that French F-8s will never and shouldn’t get CM dispensers. If they do get them, I advocate for US F-8s to get Magic 2s so that the same rules are applied and the US is not left in the dust again by having a worse domestic aircraft (F-16 ADF vs F-16AJ BS comes to mind)…

1 Like