You talk about a Phantom armed with F/A-18 Radar and RWR and 9M and AMRAAM fighting F-16 and F-15 like its a Tornado IDS fighting F-22 with nothing but guns
This is a game. Restrictions from the real world should not apply here. Instead balance should be the deciding factor.
Why did Germany have to wait for over a year after the US got their F-4E until they got their F-4F, which is weaker in all regards except for the turn radius?
The answer that Gaijin kept giving over that time was that shortly after the US got their F-4E Germany got their Starfighter, which supposedly was “competitive” and there was no need for a German Phantom.
The Starfighter was also dead on arrival and the first German Phantom came as an event reward, because the devs knew how much the players were longing for a German Phantom after all the other nations already had theirs for over a year.
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Do you even know just how much better ImIR seeker missiles are compared to what we have in the game? Or did you come to the conclusion that it would be “fair” after quickly googling what better armament it could get?
Giving shitty airframes great missiles at lower BR’s shouldn’t be encouraged. No matter what is the circumstance.
If the F-4F were to receive the IRIS-T, it would deserve a BR higher than 13.0. And it won’t anyway, unless the other nations also receive their next gen missiles. Python 5 for Israel, IRIS-T for Sweden (too), ASRAAM for Brits, PL-10 for China, MICA-IR for France, R-74 and AIM-9X (albeit inferior to the rest) for Russia and US… you don’t want to take a step in there just yet.
We don’t even have the Python 4 yet… a missile with a dual band seeker. Which would perform similarly to the TY-90, IRCCM wise, but it would be a full size missile and not a rotorcraft adaptation. And we all know how the TY-90 is. Hope this helps to understand just how powerful modern IR missiles are.
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I understand perfectly how well it works.
I also understand that this aircraft is going to be placed against jets that can fly circles around it. The ARH missiles aren’t sure kills even within 10km. It will be facing the best IR missiles in the game, and it will have no real recourse in terms of flight performance.
It creates a unique challenge at 13.0 for an old jet vs modernized systems. It also doesn’t let the F-4F ICE be DOA at the BR it’s going to operate within.
“A unique challenge” is certainly one way of saying 4 uncounterable missiles
Realistically the Unique challenge comes from the airframe itself, same as with Tornado and Sea Harrier FRS.2, it should not come from uncounterable weapons.
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Well, we have one thing in game designed to counter IIR missiles right now. BOL IR packets. Oh wait…
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F15C was the first plane in the USAF that got 9X integrated along with JHMCS
I guess 2 or 3 years it might F-15C (2015) with AN/APG-63(V)3 AESA radar, JHMCS, IR AAM AIM-9 sidewinder (AIM-9M-9 & AIM-9X) and medium-range Air-to-Air Missile AIM-120C AMRAAM (AIM-120C-5 & AIM-120C-7) but not able AIM-7M Sparrow
F-15C (2015) would be 13.7 BR in rank 9 after F-15C MSIP II but separate from F-15C MSIP II because different radar and Air-to-Air armament
In dev server F-15C MSIP II not change radar again and not receive AIM-9X sidewinder & AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM
Is there possibly a high resolution version of the 2nd image? (the one that is directly side on)
Always love F4 phantoms so much, very nice planes. Till i bought murica F4S.
Appreciate you also allow feel the pain for everyone whoes love and want speed up leveling germany planes.
And this statement “Excellent flight characteristics compared to other Phantoms” make me very curious. How so lol? Did you imagine this is something what for you can be sued? :D
Su-25 also got advanced IRCCM’ed AAMs as testbed. A bad Air RB airframe seemed appropriate to combine it with a nextgen missile.
Same should happen with F-4F ICE. A horrible airframe, wiithout any chance to compete vs F-16, F-15, Su-27, Gripens etc. It needs a nextgen missile to compete at top br. That or a drastic br reduction.
Don’t fool yourself .) Practically 12.7 = 13.0 BR. You won’t get downtiers with just -0.3 below top BR.
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Deriving Germany from the very logical Dutch F-16s only to drag a Phantom from a crappy barn somewhere instead feels like a decision that is made for reasons outside of the game and based more on real world situations…
Yes, when it still had the potential to be top tier material.
Just like the old F-4F was requested from the moment, the US received the superior F-4E, but it arrived only over a year later, when it was already useless.
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You said it yourself ''FOR YEARS…
because they wanted it YEARS AGO… nobody asked for a Phantom as their top tier jet.
What a weird thing to say.
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Yes and only this update gaijin as added ARH’s and it only make sense for the ICE to come at the same time as ARH.
Just because a group of people wants X for years doesn’t meat it should be added there and then.
People have also been asking for a Warsaw pact nation for years so by that logic too we should of gotten it by now, yes ?
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Many people overestimated or thought that the ICE will get added with only 3rd gen fitghters like harriers etc.
I don’t think it helps being toxic about the situation by dismissing their opinions based on previews statements and not the current situation (which is that the ICE wont perform as many people hoped)
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It not logical at all. Besides the ICE is Germany’s only ARH option until the Typhoon gets added.
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I’ve always said this never expect the expected when it comes to war thunder.
The Germans have practically bullied British mains for months now, what’s wrong about them getting the same treatment here ?
I’ve seen German player base now asking the Typhoon and other nations F-16s. When us Brits asked for holes to be filled by allied commonwealth nations we were told to stop asking the world.
What would the response be ?
Tell them to get over it like what they done to us or give them a hug and a kiss ?
So yea
Germans keep asking for the next best thing and get told to cope = Toxic
Brits/Canadians asking for a Canadian Leo = get’s bullied and made fun off
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F-4EJ still at 11.7, fighting a whole lotta IRCCM with AIM-9Ls when it used AAM-3 IRL would like to know your location
And it doesn’t even get the agile eagle slats the ICE gets…
Forgive me but I see one fairly big problem - German Phantoms never had Fox 1s, so I understand (feel free to correct me), and so the ICE only carried Fox 2s and 3s.
I feel like adding a Fox 3 carrier to one nation only before everyone else would be unfair and unbalanced, so the only other obvious solution is to add the F-4 ICE as… an IR only platform, only slinging AIM-9Lis (which, while a nice addition with IRCCM, that I know of are inferior to the AIM-9M.) Which again, would be ridiculous and unfair.
I’m just struggling to grapple with how anyone proposes to avoid this mess. Because from my perspective, there’s no good solutions. Gaijin have previously tried to add aircraft to other countries with nerfed/below real life capabilities and that was, from what I can tell, unpopular. I can’t say I believe it would be different with the F-4 ICE