The ice beats the f14 easily. Just dont dog fight it.
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That still doesnt mean we should be moving tbe ice or F3 late down.
At all unfortunate as the ice and f3 are to use.
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The Fakour 90 outranges the AMRAAM and the F-14 also has better flight performance. I doubt the F4F ICE really has a chance in symmetrical BVR fight.
Neither jet should move down whst the fuck is this nonsense…
Do want ti recompress the game?
Cause remember it took only 2 sub sonic strike craft to destroy 9.7,9.3,9.0, 8.7 , 8.3, 8.0, 7.7. 7.0
The su25k and a10 activelt ruined all these brackets being sdded too low WITH MISSILES ALONE theyre actively defenseless against most 9.3s without them.
Yet they pushed the mig19,f104, ariete etc down to 9.3 cause they werent usable which tben forced the korean era stuff into the rut of constantly going up against f104s etc.
Which now means again we have mig15s fighting me262s and at the same br as meteors.
Think before demanding s jets br go down especially one with such a good radar and kit.
It will rinse 12.0 and 12.3 lobbies.
What can even a morage 2000 s4 /s5, which are some of the brst 12.3s do against it. What can an f16AJ do, or even the f14A cant actively respond to the missiles.
An aim 54 launched at 27km is easier to dodge than an amraam at 14.
(Those are the areas i usually fire them)
The ICE being downtiered will have a massive effect due to weaponry.
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Thw fakour may out range it but the fakpour itself cant out pull it.
The other thing to remember is the amraam is the best ARH missile in game right now, its got a good mixture of everything.
The F14 with shaf 6 fakours can miss all of them.if ICE pilot knows how to menuever due to poor Gload.
While.also forcing the f14 to not be able.to get within good launch range with an r27er or 7F due to again the far superior arh missiles.
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You: “Reee Germany had to wait soo long to get a meta top tier mbt.”
“Okay, has [other nation] received a similar meta top tier mbt yet?”
You: “boo hoo for you that you didn’t get a meta top tier mbt yet.”
You seriously don’t see the mental gymnastics in this, which are exactly the parts I quoted in my original reply.
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I do not play Air RB so I won’t comment too much about it.
But in Sim what is going to happen is that the Fakour 90 will force F-4E to notch or go cold before it is able to launch AMRAAM at effective distance and then F-14 can just keep pushing it. Fakour 90 is a very strong missile for pushing other players from far away. And if you launch at high altitude with some speed…it will have very high terminal velocity.
Currently in Sim, the F-4F ICE sits at a BR where it never fights anything other than other ARH top tier planes. And it is constantly outnumbered due to USA side being more popular. Sim BRs also rotate so at worst the F-4F ICE would get to fight against F-15A, F-16A, and JAS-39A variants…and all of these planes have extremely strong flight models and IRCCM missiles. The only advantage the F-4F has over them is the AIM-120…and AIM-120 is not that hard to defeat in Sim due to maps being a lot more friendly for multi-pathing and just lower player density.
I get what you are saying but I do not entirely agree.
ICE is the best phantom in the game by a country mile. Heck it’s the single best 3rd gen jet in the game. Might still be even after the Viggen Di is introduced.
But its still just a 3rd gen airframe. And it does not exist in a vacuum
“If you are trying to dogfight an F16 you have skill issue” Thats correct if it was the ICE pilot’s choice. Bur the F16s have a choice in the matter too, don’t forget. They, in contrast to the ICE, have the flight performance and engine power to notch incoming AMRAAMS with relative ease and then recommit. As soon as theres 1 AMRAAM shot at the ICE its over. The ICE must go defensiven taking a whole 2 days to turn 90 degrees and guving up half its speed and all of its position.
ICE is “average” in offensive posture, and utter garbage in a defensive posture
or to 15.0 or whatever it actually should be
again all of those planes have extremely strong FMs but that matters not one wit when they have missiles such as amraams coming for them if you fire two at the right itme it becomes near undodgeable, within the context of sim i wont speak much as i stay at 9,7.
but in ARB moving the F4F ICE is just another situation like the A10 and su25 created, it is literallly the same, bad platform with great missiles and radar lowered due to its FM etc. sure change its sim BR but make sure hte F3 late stays in touch with it.
we should not any of us want things to be pushed down when it is unneeded. the F4F ice is shit at top tier , but we just got more decompression of the jet BRs we shoudl keep pushing for more so things can actually be within their own brackets respectively. AKA F15s should be able to dog on F4’s , or Gripens against mirage F1Cs.
Also the fakour in my experience again may be long range and fast but it also has a low sustained G pull, its incredibly easy to dodge it unless you fly like a total trumpet.
i have done a couple games in sim at higher BRs and managed to dodge fakours with an F1C, so yeah the ICE respectively will still come out on top. plus the aim9L/I are no joke
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I mean nothing can really beat the F-90s in a 1v1 BVR fight but the ICE does get a better radar, much better IR missile, more CMs, and colder engines. The IRIAF F-14 gets a better FM, and the F-90s which are nice but not equal to the F-4F ICE.
I still think the IRIAF should go to 13.0 though and the F-4ICE to 13.3. The BR ceiling should go up instead.
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You’re ignoring the original context.
It went “the Brit’s had to wait for a year for a new jet too bad Germany it’s your turn”
“Germany already had to wait for a new jet several times”
“Well, the Brit’s have to wait for tank as good as Germany!”
Germany had to wait 2 years to get a tank equal to Sweden, I’m sorry the Brit’s don’t have one. What do you want me to say? I’d rather make them historically accurate but that doesn’t change that fact while Germany was waiting to get any new MBT(again, for 2 years) the Brit’s did get new MBTs.
you still here with this massive victim complex?
they got new MBTs that are worse than the leopard 2a5? xD germany has decent spaa, some of the best MBTs in game and has for years now, and as i have said struggles now with the new ARH meta, and cas department, but that doesnt mean germany has no cas, has no jet the mig29G is still the best mig 29 FM in game, IMO should get R77s and then at least they ahve a semi competant platform at top tier.
But to sit here and make it out that germany has suffered is a joke mate, its been one of the best nations to use since the game launched xD period.
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This is simply untrue. You can “lol-pen” 2A6s hull with any round that has more then ~440mm of penetration (i.e basically anything equal or better than 3BM-42), you cannot replicate the same thing with 122s no matter the round, as even DM53 falls some ~100mm short of the required perforation for it to go through the glacis. Heck, even the 152mm cannot do it.
That is effectively on par.
That is you effectively lying your ass off.
Both are equally tedious, unless you happen to have a server in your region.
~440mm = ~750mm
Gotcha.
For the time prior, Germany had effectively better kit
March 2019 - Leopard 2A5
March 2020 - Strv 122 (here Sweden becomes better, but in all fairness, they didn’t actually have a ground tree before then, so basically from the moment of its addition, Sweden was already better than Germany at top tier)
October 2020 - Leopard 2A6 w/DM53 + Strv 122B+ (firepower vs raw armor, DM53 still cannot "lol-pen 122s however).
June 2022 - 122s get M/95, 2A5 still didn’t have DM53 for the 2A5 at the time afaik (they only got it a few months after)
December 2023 - 2A7V + Strv 122B AMAP
So, starting from March of 2020, Sweden was better off than Germany armor wise until basically today (as 122s are still better armored than the 2A7V), but had worse firepower starting from October of 2020 (New Power patch), closing the gap in 2022 firepower wise, and leaving Germany in the dust armor wise ever since.
When the round dropped, they ended up with effectively equal kit.
How? Having 2 MBTs with effectively impenetrable armor and DM53’like round versus 2 easily penetrable MBTs (2A5s and A6s hulls are butter compared to 122s) with DM33 and 53 respectively is not “equal”.
But they still argue they need the 122s their nation had sod all to do with.
Strv 122s are quite literally TVM max in Swedish camo, they were designed by Germany during the KWS program that ran from 1988 to 1995, and continue to be developed by Germany as KMW is in charge of pretty much all relevant 122 upgrades (Strv 123 is being developed by KMW as we speak…), heck, the only non-German things on 122s are the round (it’s Israeli), the central computer, the comm system & the smokes (they’re French). If that is “sod all”, then I’m guessing UK also has “sod all” to do with CR 3 despite being responsible for 90% of its upgrades, right? Maybe France has “sod all” to do with the EMBT despite being 50% responsible for it, maybe US has “sod all” to do with the XM30 Lynx despite being at least 50% responsible for its development?
Like man, do you have any idea just how misinformed you are? Bruh. Despite that, I haven’t seen “German mains” ask specifically for the Strv 122, but for more vehicles on par with Strv 122s, and yes, they do exist and have existed for a long time (Leopard 2 TVM, Leopard 2A6EX Demo I and II being the most important ones as they are closely related to 122s technology wise), Gaijin has simply elected not to add them.
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100 percent agree, yet, the 2a5 ( then with DM53 Is) was better than the abrams when it released, the 2a6 far better than all of the abrams, the 2a7 absolutely rocked the meta.
the STRV122s and Leo2a5/6/7 are all actually fairly close in terms of combat effectiveness.
the strvs are better, but not by a massive margin at all.
Compare the Leopard 2a5, to say, the challanger 3TD, or 2E, 2BN, or merkava Mk4, the Type10, leclercs,
its better than every single one of them.
Also the CR3 is being developed 90 percent in britain by vickers, and youll be hard pressed to say otherwise. suspension, british, power back as far as i know is the rolls royce, british, power spply etc british, FCS is british , the weapon system is rhiemental, the armour, british. so dunno why youre saying its not developed in the UK when its vickers developing most of it. seeing as its BAE/rheimental, cause rheimental chose to merge with BAE to make the challanger 3 actually happen. so yeah sayin its sod all to do with the UK is just not true.
at all
That’s my point mate. The guy I replied to was trying to claim that Germany had nothing to do with the Strv 122s, despite the fact they were the ones responsible for its development (it’s basically just the TVM Max with a different smoke system and camo). I only brought up CR 3 and the others as examples of why his claim is nothing more than bullcrap, and you missed it spectacularly.
Germany has the 2nd best MBT in game, very true. But it’s been almost a year since it was introduced, and it had to wait years for it.
Decent SPAA? Cool I guess, decent SPAAs vs absolutely devastating CAS.
MiG-29G is literally just a 9.12 with R73s that facing F-15s with AMRAAMs.
Once again, you’ve missed the point. I didn’t come in here to say Germany suffers, I came in to say what’s the big deal if the ICE goes down? It’s currently getting its ass handed to it, we already have ARH slingers lower then it(with more to come)
People have claimed Germany gets special treatment, all of my replies were to say Germany does not get special treatment.
Go on, scroll back up. You’ll literally see that was my original intent. Then I had to reply to people like you who say things like “uhhh Germany gets the lowest BR jets in game, they get special treatment”
Go back and read.
The big deal if the ice goes down mate.
Is RECOMPRESSION.
It will inevitably garner more players, which will result in more 12.0s facing it.
They already are bitching about fighting f15s,. Av8Bs , gripens etc as tbey struggle to face off against them.
Now imagine the best phantom.in game with amraams and aim9L/I
Its literally going to force down jets like the mirage f1C, F4J, tornado F3 for examples.
They cannot face.off against an ice in literally any way.
Why should the entire bracket suffer for.one jet?
What cant you fathom about this, itll literallg be the su25 , a10 conundrum again.
Forcing stuff down rather than forcing shit up.
Also again the mig29 G was key word, was,
the best mig29 in game until the smt got r77s. And before the stupid arh update.
Most 13.0s and 12.7s suffer against jets with ARH missiles as they lack them.
Germany for the past 6 years ive played nearly has had special treatment and you cannot possibly say otherwise.
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I didnt miss.it spectacularly, it was worded atrociously.
The comparisson made literally next to no sense. I understand what you actually meant, but it makes very little sense.
But lets not go off topic
Lol what. Don’t blame me for your comprehension issues.
The comparisson made literally next to no sense.
I explained that Germany was responsible for the design of the TVM/Strv 122; the guy had previously claimed that Germany had “sod all” to do with the Strv 122, so I brought up examples of other vehicles that have a high input from just a single nation and mocked him by repeating, “Do they also have sod all to do with these examples?”.
Like, all you’re doing here is telling me you didn’t understand a single bit of what I had said there.
I’m not going to derail this thread any further, and I also do not wish to engage with you any further.
Germany for the past 6 years ive played nearly has had special treatment and you cannot possibly say otherwise.
Case in point. Goodbye.