F-4EJ ADTW needs a Radar rework/fix

I obtained the F-4EJ ADTW on Sale a couple weeks back. Today I wanted to deep dive into this Jet in Sim Battles.
I was shocked how bad the Radar operates and that it is almost impossible to use AIM-7 Sparrows due to this bad AN/APQ 120 Radar Simulation. I know I can not expect a high fidelity Simulation like in DCS of this Jet, but at least some better interpretation of this radar and clutter display on the radar screen.

The Area that refelects the ground as clutter is huge. If somebody flies slighty lower to the horizon in my point of view, I can not track him anymore. In RL the Signal was filtered and you could see a faint signal. If I fly low over Ground I might get lucky to spot the enemy for a couple seconds. But then I have to decide: Do I ignore the IFF signals and shoot him in hopes I locked the right target, or do I let them go. Also the Horizontal and Vertical Radar Cue controls are not working as intended. Instead of moving a cursor through the IFF signals to lock on a Enemy Target, this controls move the radar dish to the left or to the right. Thats wrong. Radar dish is not controlled, you can only manipulate the Signal on screen when we talk about the real deal.

Another Problem with the AN/APQ120 Radar Simulation in War Thunder, is the fact that the Signal strength does not change in different Radar modes. If the Radar operates in a wide angle, the signal is weakened and should be worse then the normal narrow operation mode. But if I use “Radar/IRST beyond/within visual range combat” mode, the signal should be stronger and help to lock on the target that was visible in normal mode. Because the radar beam is focused onto this narrow band by locking on, the chances to keep the lock should be higher than it is in the game.

This should be the Area to start improving the implemented radar via patching:
Implement Clutter filtering per Radar View/Scan Angle. The narrower the better the picture of the radar.
If u are lucky to lock onto a Target that way, the narrow band should be the clearest picture and strong enough to keep lock for Engagement. To be fair, if you are on the tail of this enemy aircraft and he dives through the clouds toward the ground and your self is behind him facing toward the ground, the lock should be broken and you lose the radar contact. Thats how it should work because the ground you face is emitting clutter and as more ground is in view the more clutter/ground reflection you get on that radar screen.

How did this Radar operate in Reallife? Lets dive in:
In DCS the F-4E Phantom II was released into Early Access by Heatblur Simulations. Heatblur makes by far the best Modules for DCS. Their Modules are even superior to the Modules of the DCS developers. All thanks to years of research, hard work together with Pilots, Wisos, and further Subject Matter Experts. They worked hard to bring the first true simulated and working Radar to life and made a overview Video about the AN/APQ120 Radar. Did you know that in RL they had to develope this new radar because the nose cone of the F-4E was smaller due to its onboard cannon? Very intersting. Enjoy:

Sorry but I have to share! My love with Simulation Content, no matter if War Thunder or from somewhere else is too huge. Especially if it is so cool: Gameplay Trailer for Heatblur F-4E. Awesome made.

And the Best comes last but not least: The Heatblur presentation of the F-4E Module. It shows how much work went into the development with some insights etc. If somebody is interested in diving into Hardcore High Fidelity Simulation aside from some War Thunder Fun. There is no better place.
( Full Fidelity = Every System work identical to its RL counterpart. If u can takeoff in it Digitaly, you can do it RL too… but should you. ;) )

I dont Expect that War Thunder should get similar to DCS. But some improvements backed up by subject matter experts or simulation enthusiasts should be considered. e.g. the mentioned Radar Improvements above.

Kind Regards, MKev

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you know the f4e doesn’t have PD in game right?

both the EJ’s lack PD as well

It would be better with this update btw

excuse me PD?

pulse doppler (PD)

lol? the AN/APQ120 is a Pulse Doppler Radar. Why is this not in? Why do I see clutter? Why why why. :D wth. They should just adjust some effects, implement the signal strenght and call it PD. Nobody would care. Because it would look like a PD would look like. It almost does already. Sure the clutter has no details in game atm, but thats something they could work on.

F-4EJ ADTW | War Thunder Wiki The wiki will say if an aircraft has a pulse doppler the f4EJ is basically the F4E from the us TT with different armaments

sure. I know this wikipedia page. But the x-ray ingame says that the F-4EJ has a AN/APQ120. It should be a PD radar. Looks like Gaijin was sleeping or made a mistake. Besides that, it would not change anything special to the ingame depiction of radar. AN/APQ120 is not TWS capable. The Doppler Effect filters out the clutter. It was not good doing it in reallife but it did it at least a bit. In War Thunder we have only a milky screen with no filtering at all. Aim-7 almost useless because u can not see the Target or Lock on Target via Radar at all. It is too extreme as it is atm.

Make a bug report then, but according to the wiki the f4E has an AN/APQ-100

I can not find what type of radar in particular on that wiki.

I can tell you what the game tells me:

F-4E (USA):

F-4EJ (JAPAN):

I will try to get in touch with the devs.

I dont see PD on either radar

PD is by fact part of the reallife AN/APQ120 Radar. It is a feature that exists based on how this Radar operates, since the AN/APQ120 is a Pulse Radar. It sends Radio Pulses and creates a Picture of its viewing direction by receiving the radio waves that are thrown back by objects in its path. If it detects an object in the foreground (by computing the travel time of the radio pulses and the waves received back it can determine how far the object is away) that moves in a certain speed we speak of a doppler effect that can be used to filter this object from the background noise. War Thunder depicts Vehicles based on its reallife counterparts. If it has an AN/APQ120 radar as seen in the screenshot, it should have SRC DP mode at least in a narrow search pattern. Thats a mistake by Gaijin.

The first of the three videos I provided in my first post, explains the AN/APQ120 and how it should look like in detail. Its a pleasant watch if somebody is interested into such things or curious about how things work.

bruh pulse Doppler is not the same thing as pulse radar, PD is a kind of pulse radar

key word here is the Doppler effect

as far as I know the only non pulse radars in game are radar gunsights (I think) and a radar that’s on 1 German WW2 plane

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Yes AN/APQ 120 is not a Pulse Doppler Radar but a Pulse radar. And the Doppler Effect occurs no matter if u have a PD radar or not. Since the AN/APQ120 had not the capabilities of improved and later models, they used CAA to filter the ground and cloud clutter.

I dont get why we are even discussing PD Radars. PD is not the problem with this Radar. It was capable of filtering out noise and clutter and thats something, that is not considered or not working right in War Thunder. The Cluttering is so overpowered and over the Top that a beyond visual range engagement is not possible. And thats a Design flaw considering that we are talking about the F-4E Phantom with AIM-7 under its belly.

The AN-APQ 120 is not a pd radar however it is still poorly modeled and I do not like the way clutter is shown, also the radar has a lot poorer lookdown shootdown capability than it had irl

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Thats what I try to say. Thank you.

Just had contact with Suggestion Moderators and they told me, without historical data, documentation and info material they can not consider suggestions regarding improvement or rework on the radar and how it performs in game. In other words, without subject matter experts from military, documentation from military or similar, there won’t be any changes. It is a pitty. They also can not consider work from subject matter experts on other simulations as source of information.

In my eyes it is pointless to argue with Gaijin on this subject. My Guess is they dont have subject matter experts (former pilots, wiso’s or ground crew operating F-4E’s). That would explain a lot of things what is wrong in this Game.

that’s just factually incorrect they are called pulse Doppler for a reason, yes pulse radars cause the effect but cannot interpret it into useable info

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Even if the F-4E had full blown pulse doppler, if you want to go the realism way any sparrow besides the 7M or Skyflash variants should not be able to do look down attacks

Thats fine. But the current problem is that you can not make look ahead attacks. the only thing you can do is look up attacks. thats it. As soon as somebody flies close to the horizon line in the Phantoms POV, its over.