if the fox 3 test from the last dev server is anything to go by then those will both expand the effective and the usual combat range of top tier a lot
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I guess navy phantoms and british phantoms can gets AIM9Ls but, they would go 11.7BR because F4EJ Kai is already sitting at there with AIM9Ls.
I don’t mind either way, but there are several aircraft that should gets better missiles, like the F14A and F16A MLU, before the F4.
Wouldn’t be unreasonable to just upgrade missiles across the board.
I’m hoping, the dev test was a pretty rough draft but over 10km those missiles missed a whole lot. They’ve had months to polish them - so hopefully they perform well.
I really feel like they’ll stick us with a lower generation 120. I feel like only one nation is allowed full off-boresight.
Only the 11.3+ Phantoms(F4J, F4S etc) should get AIM-9L. Rest dont need AIM-9L. Also AIM-9M would be a balancing nightmare.
The US F-4E and other F-4E derivatives at and above 11.0 could probably use the AIM-9P-4, considering the MiG-21Bis & MiG-23M / ML, etc. have the R-60M(K) and / or R-23T /-24T.
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Do 11.0 F4Es really need them? Any changes to its armaments could cause balancing issues
Considering the lack of a Pulse-Doppler radar mode (unmodeled axillary sensors[e.g. AN/ASX-1 TISEO found on the Kurnass 2000 at 11.3]), and Multipath, and significant blind zones( which are overstated vs known data, and also lacks other modes that would assist in maintaining, and regaining a broken track), Sparrows can be near impossible to even get off the rail in the first place let alone actually employ properly, doesn’t help that they are fairly easily incidentally defeated, let alone if the launch is seen.
Considering that the contemporary airframe is the MiG-21F-13 and that sits at 8.7 / 9.3, where the F-4E sits at 11.0 the relevant advantages the F-4E has over its counterparts at 11.0 are practically limited to near non-existent encounters outside Sim, and medium / high altitude where the MiG-23M / ML are a much closer fight, let alone having to deal with having to scan for All-Aspect missiles and the ease at which a 3rd party can cause issues if you get pulled into a dogfight.
and there would also be little to no issue with finally splitting the US F-4E into an Early (Mid) and Late model since stores and features are a mix at the moment with a significant number of issues which could further solve the issue of BR.
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Really well said.
This is true but still some people will say F4E has more missiles than the MiG23 and those missiles makes it superior than Mig23.
if you can’t get them off the rail, they are an active detriment to the flight performance which may be much more relevant to the engagement.
in a one on one, you can still bait for missiles with no intent to close to deplete the opponents stores (if they spam them) and with the early Sparrows you can out roll them too while closing with sufficient closure rate anyway so you don’t really need to wait.
And a MiG-21 / MiG-23 needs to be at either medium / high altitude or have vastly overplayed their hand to end up with a Phantom behind them considering the relative T/W, and still have large caliber Flares to deal with any Sidewinders.
Is the F-4E a better Support fighter, Sure. But its not going to be winning a Joust or Dogfight without capitalizing on mistakes that the opponent committed, and relying on facing bad pilots, or not being seen isn’t always the best strategy for survival; let alone winning.
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Didn’t German F-4s mount IRIS-Ts?
AIM-9Ls were buffed. They’re the best non-IRCCM missile in the game next to Python 3
I was referring to them in their first iteration in-game, they practically functioned as weaker AIM-9Ms.
The ICE edition did. Not sure about any other German F-4S running it.
Today’s 9Ls are stronger than their first iteration.
Lol no
First of all, the R-60Ms are poor missiles, on-par with the AIM-9J at best despite being all-aspect. They lack energy and are extraordinarily flare-hungry due to their wide FOV.
The R-23s are also very poor missiles, roughly equivalent to the standard AIM-7E, with poor seekers and manueverability. The R-24 is a massive improvement, extremely similar to the Skyflash, but there’s only two of them to four Sparrows.
Not having PD is common at 11.0. Look at the MiG-21bis, which not only lacks PD but only has R-3Rs for radar-homing missiles. The J-7 doesn’t have radar missiles or all-aspects whatsoever! And that’s not even mentioning the F-104S… Even the MiG-23M doesn’t have PD but rather the inferior MTI. And don’t forget that that aircraft is severely handicapped by only 12 countermeasures (6 launches).
As for the MiG-21F-13 being the contemporary of the F-4E you could not be more wrong. Obviously, performance isn’t anywhere close to similar. But neither is the time period of when it entered service-
MiG-21F-13: mid 1960
F-4C: December 1960
F-4E: October 1967
MiG-21SM/MF: 1968
MiG-21SMT: 1971
MiG-21bis: 1972
F-4E Agile Eagle (what we have in-game): September 1972
MiG-23M: June 1972
So the F-4E’s contemporaries were the MiG-21bis and MiG-23M, which whaddya know, share the same BR. Not the MiG-21F-13 from over a decade earlier.
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Everything I said was based off memory since I had both the AIM-9L and Harrier GR.7 when they were first added, I looked at old previous videos and without the existence of flare rise and the strength of the seeker the AIM-9L 100% performed better then instead of now.
They were really strong for the end of 2022/early 2023. Was nerfed about Jan/Feb 2023. Then got buffed again like Sep 2023, but they are definetly not as strong as they once were.
But they are without a doubt underperforming to IRL levels. though I suspect thats more a game limitation with how IR signatures work in WT
I doubt it. With IRIS-T entering service in 2005 and F4s being replaced by Typhoons throughout the early 2000s. the F4s that did receive the IRIS-T were probably just to tie them over for end-of-life
(at least based upon some quick googling)
People were still afterburning all the time back then.
The seeker however was objectively worse than today.