İ see so its a problem that can be avoided if they choose to do it.
For the sake of game balance they should adjust this issue alongside with sparrows guiding problem and missing radar modes, i believe those fixes will be more then enough to put F-15 to 12.7.
There is one second hand citation on a Russian website that just gets repeated at face value without any context ad-infinitum across internet message boards.
The fact of the matter is the way that War Thunder models the MiG-23ML variants is extremely generous and of dubious authenticity. The fact that you can unfold the wings at high speed and then out turn any of the more modern Russian fighters creates a rather ridiculous situation.
If the MiG-23MLD was as good in real life as it was in the game…the USSR would have never bothered designing and building the Flanker or Fulcrum.
If the F15 was so good they would’t of bothered with the F16 F/A18 F22
The US also needed a light fighter, which was the f-16. Then later on, the f-14s age was showing and because the navy and air force have beef , and cuz carrier aircraft should be purpose-made, the f-18 was built. The F-22 was in a way the American response the the su-27, which was the Soviet response to the F-15 (also why I agree with f15 staying at 12.3 because the gripen, m4k, and su-27 are all newer and more advanced than the A model F-15)the f-22 also was almost an experiment to see just how good the stealth tech could be when used on a fighter built to be stealthy on radar.
Yeah…NEVER ripped wings in the MiG-23 of any type in game…
No f/a was built to replace the strike aircraft not the F14
super hornet replaced the f14
no that was the F117
The MiG-23ML/A/D is able to sustain higher turn rates than both the Su-27 and the MiG-29 in game by 1-2 degrees per second while being a much older airframe with a worse thrust to weight ratio.
I don’t know why the latter of your reply is directed towards me, I’m not arguing against any of that.
They made larger twin engine aircraft according to a new design philosophy put forth by TsAGI… The same argument could have been presented for MiG-19 vs MiG-21. There are a monumental number of reasons the MiG-29 and Su-27 are superior to the MiG-23. Additionally, the MiG-23 would never be used in a sustained turn fight at 7.5-8.5Gs in the same way as the MiG-29 in real life. This is an awful argument… and it’s not just a random Russian website. It was a direct quote from a pilot who flew both. It’s equally useful as “evidence” as the American test / aggressor pilots accounts.
Swing wings are great, aren’t they? Gripen is an interesting case of obvious error in FM tho.
The MiG-23ML variants out-rate both the MiG-29 and Su-27 by 1-2 degrees per second margins while having worse power to weight ratio. In-game the MiG-29 and Su-27 are a step backwards in comparison to the extremely favorable modeling of the MiG-23.
I would even go so far to say that the MiG-23ML variants can reliably win against both planes in a BFM fight.
Where is the direct quote?
As far as I can tell this anecdote purely comes from airwar.ru and even Wikipedia doubts it’s credibility.
İ know i was adressing gaijin but looks like a misunderstood happened.
İ did in MLD, couple times actually.
İt was back in the day when MLD was top dog.
The F-14 has similar performance increase over other fighter types due to the swing wings in spite of the T/W. You’re also probably comparing the static T/W of MiG-23 which doesn’t show the whole story.
Likewise with the F-14A, which has less than a 1.0 T/W static… Has a higher sustained turn rate than even the F-16 depending on fuel loads.
Anyhow to avoid derailing we should probably discuss the F-15 and I happen to agree with the consensus on the issues that has been discussed thus far… not trying to say it doesn’t deserve some fixes. (So does the F-14).
There is not a single point where the MiG-23ML variants have better thrust to weight ratio to the MiG-29 or Su-27 in-game.
The difference between turn rates between the F-16 variants and the F-14 ends up being a lot less pronounced in practice. Even if optimally flown in full real controls the F-16A will not struggle with the F-14A. On the other hand the MiG-29 and Su-27 practically fall out of the sky due to extremely high drag in turns other than at a targeted rate speed.
But regardless I don’t think there is anything out there that supports the idea of the F-14A being able to maintain a flat turn at 24 degrees per second.
Basically all those US evaluations refer to older MiG-23 variants that aren’t remotely as capable to the ML/MLA/MLD.
The G rating for the MiG23ML and derivatives is 8.5G, and in warthunder it doesn’t pull more than 12.5 (which is a bit less than 8.5 times 1.5) in standard conditions.
MiG-23MLDs flown by experienced pilots put up a good fight against MiG-29As flown by less experienced pilots.
The only reason the MiG-23 is remembered badly is the fact that it had a troubled start and has a poor K/D, which was mainly caused by hundreds MiG-23BNs shot down, and not the actually capable air to air variants.
The reason MiG-23ML is massively outrating the MiG-29 and Su-27 is the instructor. If you sit at optimal speeds the difference in rate is minimal.
MiG-23s are expected to perform good in rate fights because they have very high aspect wings which give very low induced drag.
MiG-23ML rate performance seems to match charts although there is no chart for full forward wings rate performance so that might be over performing a bit
Shoulda specified air superiority
They aren’t massively out-rating because of the instructor. The plane out rates at higher speeds as well.
What isn’t shown in turn rate diagrams is how much energy is lost while reducing turn radius and bleeding off speed between optimal rate speed and minimal turn radius. In-game the MiG-29 and Su-27 can only turn above their sustained rate for minimal periods of time whereas something like the MiG-23 can do it for much longer and recover to optimal rate speed much easier.
This difference becomes readily apparent when you take something like the Gripen that has a turn rate that is worse on paper than the Su-27…and realize that it just runs circles around it in an actual fight.
