Also if continuing this off topic, when I wrote the last message, in a minute I died in this situation
(i’m shooting chaff, this replay indicator is bugged)
So it is 71.4% of 14, subtract 100 from that and it is 28.6% less than 14.
That isn’t true, I find that my AIM-7F / R-24R go for chaff sometimes even in head-on scenarios. It’s kind of absurd. When the enemy is flying at me and decides to notch it tends to break lock on the AIM-7 whereas the R-24 may carry on with INS long enough to regain lock if he doesn’t keep chaffing.
The pig was known for its’ slow acceleration time. In fact this is overperforming as far as I’m concerned. The intake has a LOT to do with the available thrust and the F-111 has a lot higher drag at 0 degrees AoA by the nature of the design.
There are many situations where AIM-9L will just not give up chasing an afterburner whereas the radar missiles can always be avoided from all aspects by doing something or another. You have a missile with a very high percent chance of kill from rear aspect and a missile (AIM-7F, R-27R, etc) that has only a moderate chance of kill in any aspect.
You flew head-on and too high above ground towards someone you KNOW is going to fire an R-24R at you? That missile has inertial guidance, you need to first chaff it to break lock and then also maneuver away from your previous direction. This takes more time than waiting until you are 2km in front of him.
You may as well have intentionally just ate that missile for all I care, that was all your own fault.
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yes flying literally 10 meters above ground, changing direction (and F111 bleeds energy like crazy), while shooting chaff, notching, inviting him to use his guns or just getting on my six, all of that in the span of 10-15 seconds cuz he appeared out of nowhere while he just clicks once to shoot flare and I can’t do anything against him using AIM9L in this situation. Fair.
You are in an F-111, that’s like complaining you can’t just dogfight a Zero in your B-29.
You were literally flying towards the enemy team over rough terrain that would make it impossible not to die to a radar missile. You quite literally did everything wrong and are somehow surprised it didn’t end well.
Your AIM-9L’s are defensive, not offensive. They are useful against enemies that don’t know they are coming or are afterburning in front of you just outside of guns range.
He is stuck with only R-60M, and you have a MAWS. How is that fair? The game is balanced asymmetrically. Make better decisions as to where you are flying and how you set yourself up (or don’t) for success.
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Actually F111F surpasses many planes at ths br at turn fighting, MiG 23 can’t compete that’s for sure
No, I was side “flying”
May I also have these “offensive rockets”, same as F4S Phantom? I somehow would feel myself much more confindent with a couple of AIM7F u know.
Good mental gymnastics tho, calling IR missiles defensive, especially when the only defense an enemy should do against them is literally dispensing flare one time.
So, MiG 23 ML has two R24R that basically guarantee 1 kill, and potentially 2 kills, and 4 R-60M that are also good at shooting down yawning targets, same as AIM9L.
I doubt that is the case, even so the MiG-23ML/MLA/MLD wouldn’t need to rate fight an Aardvark.
There are two hills in that map. The enemy flies left or right of their airfield and low for cover so they can do exactly what they did to you. Your options are to go left wide around the hill to avoid being snuck up on like that, or bee-line it to a base from center map where you can hold yourself close to the treetops better. You chose to fly over the rough terrain and left yourself open to a point blank head-on with a MiG-23.
Then fly a fighter?
That is their purpose on that aircraft. There is no mental gymnastics here. The F-111F is an all-weather long range strike aircraft. It utilizes AIM-9L’s as a defensive weapon set because the primary goal of the aircraft is not to interdict and engage enemy fighters. It is capable of this, sure, but vastly inferior to peers at the time. It could in theory be equipped with AIM-9M but then it would move up too far in BR for Gaijin’s liking as I see it.
They don’t guarantee anything. The AIM-9L is just as (if not more effective) than the four R-60M’s, and your aircraft is NOT a fighter.
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In this situation I would’ve turned right there, would’ve gotten you into the notch faster, but it’s overal a bad situation to be in (close range and bad terrain). Could’ve been possibly avoided if you knew of his position earlier and/or paid more attention to the RWR (can’t know if it was possible because the replay is too short) and going putting him on your 1-2 o clock or vice versa to the other side to prepare.
Ngl though, I think the F-111F is fine overal. It’s a pretty decent 11.7, had fun in it. A tip is to also put the wings in manual mode with full forward sweep, this makes you retain your energy significantly better but do note your max speed will be around mach 1.07 or so on the deck (so be prepared to either lose speed or pull the wings back in a dive). Another thing is to absolutely do climb, the vark has pretty bad climbrate and retention in the vertical, so you want to prevent having to climb and instead dive more (launching 9Ls far away from above is also much more effective). Anyways, indeed a bit off-topic now.
Yeah basically I should have notched the dude the moment I saw him, but I mean I would still be in a weaker position after losing speed and all of that is big brain-ery while the only thing the dude does is pressing a couple of buttons while I should dance some rumba
Yeah, I’ve seen some F5s using this mid alt tactic to shoot AIM9s (or similar missiles) from above, but I’m not confident about it cuz I never tried it before + theoretically more alt – more vulnerable against radar missiles
I have about 2.0 KD on F111F including killing bots, it’s much more fun than F111A or Italian F104, no question about it.
Did I mention that I play Air RB? Sorry, dying while trying to bomb isn’t really profitable to me plus after all it has decent specs for a fighter as well
Bombing in Air RB is being in a weaker position than hordes of F4EJ/F4S, MiG23s, so no sorry
Also, which alt is optimal above ground then?
That is 100% just the equivalent of people using the A-26 as a fighter instead of bombing with it. Using the F-111F in air RB solely as a fighter is guaranteed to bring you the headaches you’re complaining about.
<60m but preferably as close as possible to treetop level and you still need to maneuver and chaff to guarantee that it misses. People are starting to learn that if they intentionally drop lock 1-2s before impact, the missile will not get sucked into the ground from multipath and instead will travel to your last known position (or close enough), often getting close enough to damage or kill you.
Dude, F111F flies against planes with pulse doppler radars, ground clutter isn’t really an obstacle for these planes
It’s literally not, F111F turns better than Phantoms, MiG23s, and in the worst case scenario can just fly away escaping turn fight. F111F is faster than MiG 29, F14 so yeah opportunities are there
You aren’t understanding what I’m telling you at all. It does not matter if the radar is pulse doppler or not. “Multipathing” will cause the missile to see two reflections, it cannot ascertain which is the correct target and will fly into the ground ahead of you in frontal launch scenarios if you are flying low enough.
The A-26 is considerably faster than most of the fighters it faces and has considerably better forward armament. It isn’t a 1:1 comparison, but the analogy works well. The F-111 is not a fighter, it is not as good as the F-4E or MiG-23ML+ and will not be dogging on either in a fight.
If you insist on fighting with one hand tied behind your back… don’t complain that one hand is tied behind your back. It’s a simple concept.
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Are u sure u’re THE expert after saying that? The benefit of Pulse Doppler radar at all is that it tracks a target based on the difference of the speed, and ground clutter, surprise, IS STATIC
I bet radars of 70s can differenciate targets moving at, say, 1 Mach and ZERO Mach.
You’re still not understanding
At sufficiently low altitudes, multipath propagation causes the radar missile to be unable to ascertain whether it is tracking the return point from the ground or the return from the target. Thus, it ends up flying into the ground ahead of the plane failing to hit. In War Thunder, multipath is set to an unrealistically high amount so that anything below 60m is unlikely to be directly hit by an air to air missile. Previously it was more than 100m altitude for multipath to take effect.
So stay below 60m from ground, chaff, and crank.
Radar missiles can filter chaff put almost entirety when head on, that’s why you always need to notch.
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Multipath propagation is not related to ground clutter. It’s a separate phenomenon where radar waves can take two different paths to arrive at the same target, which can confuse the radar.
Gaijin model this by having missiles dive into the ground if the target is below 60 m altitude. There is significant debate over how accurate that implementation is (I’d argue not very when it comes to affecting missiles). But the point is that’s how it works in game.
U wanted to say unrealistically LOW amount, if we talk about this multipath? Cuz if looking up the info about it, this interference starts within already 400-1000 meters irl, 60-100 meters would literally be excess irl especially against AIM7F, R24R. Nonetheless these missiles in War thunder lock just fine and if u don’t have similar missiles u’re screwed or a bit screwed… After all something like F5 is really smol and can notch with relative ease
Also as if it’s not enough, we get cloudy maps too often, on which it’s physically impossible to fly that low + IR missiles don’t work in clouds
This reports suggests multi-path was essentially a non-issue for mono-pulse seeker missiles: https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA299448.pdf
The results obtained above indicate that for the initial conditions considered as representative of a low-altitude engagement, an examination of apparent target height (and effectively apparent target boresight angle) indicates that although multipath returns are impacting on the predicted target position, average behaviour tends to the true target position. Any significant deviations from the true target position are extremely transient and are damped by the missile response time. Therefore they do not cause any adverse guidance problems for the missile.
That paper was examining targets flying at 5-30 m altitude.
There are also multiple reports of Skyflash and even AIM-7E hitting targets at very low altitude (down to 30 m).
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Well what can I say then but “I’m screwed cuz playing a plane without something like at least AIM7F” (while again F111F flight model is pretty good), especially when people say that basically any missiles like that have mono pulse seekers for balance purposes, while something like AIM7F shouldn’t have had this feature
I really don’t dig 11.7 BR with how lethal are radar missiles these days. After all it’s not just me dying from them, F16s die from AIM7F, MiGs die from R24Rs and sparrows, Phantoms die from Phantoms. Should I even mention something like F104 dying from everything?