I really don’t see how this can be ?
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Slower, no stabilizer, and average APFSDS round. The TURM 3 is a superior tank.
Edit:
This post copies all of my takes, so you can read more about my position here:
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Yes, would be crazy if it was lower. M41D is a very effective tank if you know how to play it properly.
It has everything a lowest modern tank could have in-game: APDS-FS, thermal imaging and laser rangefinder.
For instance the lowest vehicle with laser rangefinder is the ZTS63, M41D is the lowest vehicle with all the characteristic I listed previously.
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This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
This is pretty clearly the opinion of somebody who has never played the M41D. Yes, it has LRF, Gen 1 thermals, and APFSDS. Those are the only advantages of the vehicle, and everything else is exceedingly terrible.
To start with, M41D’s mobility is terrible. It frequently lags behind medium tanks in battle. Itself being a light tank, the armour is almost nonexistent, with even most autocannons easily piercing it frontally.
That leaves the firepower to make up for it, right? Well, it does: it has good optics zoom along with LRF, thermals, and fast traverse. But even here there are problems. The M41D lacks a stabilizer, and due to its springy suspension, it takes a long time to ready fire. It has a 280 mm penetrating APFSDS - but the caliber is 76 mm. Think of it as an HSTV-L, but with 6x the reload time at the shortest. The post-penetration capability is absolutely abysmal, and you will find yourself needing to shoot every tank 2-5 times to destroy it. The largest issue is the accuracy! The dispersion is huge, making long range combat difficult despite this playstyle being the M41D’s main one.
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@MrBombastic8
How am I bullying him?
He even agreed with me 100%.
@山_田_凉
Glad you 100% agree with me.
The TURM III is just undertiered. It’s a more mobile, stabilized Leopard 1 with a 30mm. It’s at minimum 0.7 better than the Leo 1. I’ve also heard the M41D is pretty bad, but I’d rather have the TURM go up, than that go down.
@AlvisWisla They’re saying the user they replied to is bullying you.
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That’s weird since all they did was 100% agree with me and even repeat my takes in their own later post.
This and other ‘issues’ you pointed are exclusively part of the player, sure there are technical issues but it will require adaptation, which means the vehicle itself is just not newbie friendly.
Just like the Rooikat Mk 1D it requires skill due to the lower caliber APDS-FS ammunition, it definetely isn’t a bad vehicle but not newbie-friendly. Returning to the topic, I believe the Turm III, is just not at higher battle rating because of the inaccessiblity to better ammunition, it’s restricted to APDS and HEAT-FS rounds.
Which also makes me question if it’s Gaijin preference because it’s a best-seller Premium tank or are some dificulty the tank may encounter at higher battle rating, it’s fair to note that there are some examples at higher battle rating with less/same effective ammunition like the Chieftain Mk 3 and Chieftain Mk 5 being restricted to APDS and HESH rounds.
And its coaxial gun can kill the M41D frontally…
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That is both meaningless and incorrect. Firstly, adaptation to problems does not mean performance will be the same as if there were no problem, as you imply. Secondly, M41D’s problems are massive and incapable of being mitigated; even for experienced players such as myself, M41D is weak at its BR.
Let me ask you, what do you think a good player can do in the M41D? It has little armour, bad mobility, and a weak round, yet it is the same BR as the M60 and Leopard 1. It can’t flank (bad mobility, no stab, can’t one-shot consistently) and is bad at rushing in (same problems + bad armour).
A good player would snipe at far range, right? Let’s ignore momentarily the fact that most War Thunder maps have tiny engagement ranges. Even if you were on a long-range map, you are still limited in power. The accuracy of the M41D’s cannon is terrible. At long range, even if you have pixel-perfect aim, your shots will fly all over the place. Even if you hit the enemy, your 76mm APFSDS will pretend like the enemy tank is covered in spall liner. It’s not only ineffective, it’s frustrating to play at all.
Also, I don’t know why you chose to include a picture of a single match. Is it to demonstrate it can do well? A single match is meaningless and is not valid evidence. Is it to prove you have the vehicle (because I said it sounded like you didn’t)? If so, it only shows you to be a biased interpreter of your own experiences.
Yeah this pretty much sums it up perfectly
As slow as soviet heavy tanks at its br
Unstabilzied and insanely wiggly
APFSDS with no post pen that requires accurate shots but the gun is too inaccurate for it
If it had a 5 or even a 4 second reload it’d be a lot more viable
How it’s meaningless and incorrect when I show a proof that a player can actually play the vehicle and get good results with it, I don’t understand your point of shooting questions to me in four paragraphs like that’s a point.
Just because John said it’s a bad tank, it doesn’t mean you’re obligated to play it, get bad or no results, as I said it depends on adaptation of the player and it’s obviously it will have different results if it didn’t haven’t any issues, what kind of argument is that, I know captain obvious, the vehicle is not newbie-friendly, it’s not supposed to be the main goal when researching the chinese tech tree because no one will reach at you and say: “Hey, you should grind M41D because it’s a good tank for everyone”.
And I don’t know in what scenario you’ll face yourself in a long range map, it’s a elephant in the room, War Thunder doesn’t have and restrict to a very few rare matches with essentially larger distances maps like Pradesh with few sniping spots or Red Desert with even less, rarely engagements is further than 1 000 meters.
Lastly no, I didn’t wanted to prove I had the vehicle but to prove that you can get good results with it, again, I didn’t understanded why you wanted to be a victim in this point, if I didn’t attached a picture, any value I said could be a lie to make you think the M41D is not bad as you think it is. If my time wasted on matches for a few 30 minutes is meaningless and whatever I said is incorrect, please, I beg you give me some data, maybe I’m playing the wrong vehicle.
One image is meaningless, and it should be obvious why it is. You have no statistics or data, just one match. It is statistically insignificant. Nobody here is saying that it is completely impossible for the M41D to get 4 kills. The message is that on average, it performs much worse than other tanks at the same BR.
For example, I could take the T-34-85 to top tier and get 5 kills given enough matches. Doesn’t mean it is adequate at that BR. If I really believed this point, wouldn’t this expose that my fundamental understanding of reason is lacking?