Everything wrong with the AMX-30, AMX-32 and AMX-40 series of vehicles

[totolescargo]

INTRODUCTION

The French ground forces are a pretty rich and diversified historical one, which has been represented within War Thunder by the inclusion of many iconic vehicles. However, the AMX 30, AMX 32, and AMX 40 series have numerous issues and inaccuracies that need to be sorted out. This thread aims to address both present issues that are unresolved and future concerns that could be met in order to possibly enhance the gameplay experience and historical accuracy within these vehicles.

I- Problems Currently Reported on the AMX 30 Series of Vehicles

The basic problems in the AMX-30 series have not been addressed despite previous feedback:

AMX 30B2 BRENUS Missing KE Protection:

• The BRENUS ERA blocks should offer protection against KE-type projectiles of over 100 mm RHAe; in the posted configuration, they offer a mere 5 mm RHAe, which is far from the expected and greatly diminishes the survivability of the tank (Community Bug Reporting System)
• AMX 30 and AMX 30 (1972) Improperly named: AMX 30 B, AMX 30 B (1972): the two tanks should be improperly named, “AMX 30 B” and “AMX 30 B (1972)” presently these are not reflecting their historical names (Community Bug Reporting System)

AMX 30 Super Gunner Sight Magnification:

→ Currently, the gunner sight magnification is 8x-12x. Technically, historically it should be 4x-12x; the resulting impact for aiming and player experience (Community Bug Reporting System)

AMX 32 (105) shouldn’t have a thermal gunner sight:

→ Currently, AMX 32 (105) has a thermals gunner sight even though it shouldn’t (Community Bug Reporting System).

Roland 1 elevation is wrong :

→ I’m adding this because the Roland 1 uses an AMX-30 hull. Currently, the Roland 1’s maximum elevation is wrong … which is really problematic for an SPAA ! (Community Bug Reporting System)

AMX 30 : Armor is underpeforming. For instance, in the turret it is supposed to be 150mm RHAe against KE threats (currently 50-80mm) (Community Bug Reporting System)

Spoiler

French Tungsten APFSDS density is incorrect. It currently is 17.5g/cm^3 even though it should be 17.6g/cm^3 (Community Bug Reporting System).

French APFSDS rounds should not ricochet at an angle of 80° : Currently, French APFSDS rounds have 0% chance to ricochet at an 78° angle, 50% ot ricochet at an 80° angle and 100% chance to ricochet at an 81% angle. This is wrong and should be changed so that there is 0% chance to ricochet at an 80° angle (Community Bug Reporting System).

Spoiler

II- Problems To Report In The Future Regarding AMX 30, AMX 32 and AMX 40 Series of Vehicles

I will be working closely with @Bossman919 on these issues in the upcoming days.

Future vehicle concerns need to be addressed for accuracy and performance:

A) Issues Common to AMX 32 (120), and AMX 40

1) Lower-performing Armour: The armor on these tanks does not perform to historical standards, affecting their in-game defensive capabilities:
- AMX 32 (120) : Its hull and turret should be able to withstand all KE threats up to 200mm (currently about 130-145mm)

Spoiler

- AMX 40 : Its turret should be able to stop 100mm Russian APDS : (currently about 185mm, should be almost DOUBLE that to reach about 350mm)

Spoiler

AMX-32 & AMX-40 : Cupola should not traverse.

2) Wrong thermal generation: The present thermal imaging systems are not the right generation for these vehicles, adversely affecting their detection and targeting capabilities. Currently Gen 1, they should be Gen 2.

B) AMX 30 DCA

1) Incorrect Model and Specifications: The AMX 30 S DCA is modeled instead of AMX 30 DCA. Consequently:

2) Engine power is too low: To make it mobile, reducing its effectiveness. It has an improper name and operator flag, which leads to historical inaccuracies.

C) AMX 32 (120) Naming Proper Designation: AMX 32 (120) should be designated AMX 32 P4 to reflect the correct designation.

This is pretty self-explanatory.

D) AMX 30 ACRA :

• Missing sight stabilization (not talking about the gun, only the sight) ;
• Missile top speed is wrong (too slow) ;
• Missile acceleration is wrong (also too slow) ;
• Missile penetration is wrong (currently lower than what is should be).

CONCLUSION

These remaining issues, when dealt with, would upgrade the historical accuracy and, more importantly, upgrade greatly the experience for the players of the French Ground Forces lineup in War Thunder, the AMX 30s in particular, considering they do not have a stabilizer at their BR.

And please remember, while we’re pushing for these improvements, always keep your powder dry and your sense of humor ready.
After all, a well-placed joke is sometimes just as effective as a well-placed comment!

Let’s keep the constructive comments flowing and work for making the AMX series truly the outstanding vehicle line it was supposed to have been.

So, drop your thoughts and let’s keep the discussion lively; who knows, perhaps our collective enthusiasm will encourage Gaijin to add a croissant dispenser on the AMX 40!

Good tanking, and see you on the battlefield!

[joze5]

That’s we need, +1

[vizender]

Love to see a thread for the AMX series.
I hope we will see the bug reports soon that are proposed.
I also have several other issues that could be covered, mostly ranging around the ACRA being modeled wrong :

• sight stabilization (not the gun but the aiming sight is)
• missile top speed
• missile acceleration
• missile penetration

If the reports for the thermals get passed for the AMX30 series, an argument could also be made for the 10RC I believe.

All in all, now that everything is brought up in this thread, I realize that there is still a whole lot of errors even in the AMX 30 series of vehicle (K already had an idea of the armor issues of the 40, but not the 30s).

[totolescargo]

I will add these issues to the thread right now. Completely forgot about ACRA !

[Mulatu_Astatke]

The issue with the AMX 30 DCA in-game is that it’s actually the AMX 30 S DCA which was in Saudi Arabian service. The AMX 30 S (“S” standing for Saudi Arabia) chassis is different from the French AMX 30 B chassis in that:

1. It has an engine which only produces a maximum of 650hp
2. It has sand guards mounted along the hull

AMX 30 S material:

Spoiler

AMX 30 DCA in-game (note the sand guards):

Spoiler

This means that the AMX 30 B DCA (using the French chassis) could still enter the game:

Spoiler

This would be better for the tech tree whilst the AMX 30 S DCA could be a premium. Then there’s also the AMX 13 DCA too. So a possible line-up of three different DCA turrets:

[AlvisWisla]

@totolescargo

Currently, AMX 32 (105) has a thermals gunner sight even though it shouldn’t

What’s this for?

[joze5]

[AlvisWisla]

Thank you for the documentation, but what does BNL stand for then?
Abbreviations are bad enough in English.

[vickers43850]

It’s Thomson-CSF’s Canasta low-light-level television (LLLTV), also designated DIVT-13 in the French Army’s AMX-30B2.

LLLTV is called television à bas niveau de lumière (TVBNL) in French.

The AMX-32 (105) in the game is actually the early model introduced at the Satory VII show in 1979, also unofficially referred to as the AMX-32/79.

The AMX-32 with Castor thermal imager was introduced at the 1985 Satory X show. Unofficially known as the AMX-32/85, it is the third prototype of AMX-32.

Note the difference in the external camera fitted on the right side of the gun shield. LLLTV is generally prohibited operation when opening cover during the day, while thermal imager can be turned on during the day or night.

The AMX-32/85 prototype survives in the Musée des Blindés in Saumur, but is not in good condition.

[ozhaeagle]

thats right +1

[vizender]

So it would act a bit more like the NVD found on the BMP2M in game rather than a full fledge TVD ?

[OddPhenomena]

Am I correct in thinking that’s the 105 F1 gun? It might be interesting to give it a better round like OFL 105 G2 or OFL 105 F2. This might be a good suggestion as a foldered vehicle with the AMX-32s.

[Mulatu_Astatke]

None of the AMX 32s historically had access to OFL 105 G2, let alone OFL 105 F2 which is a late 90s round. France could get the AMX 30 C2 or the Venezuelan AMX 30 V and AMX 30 VE - all of which are stabilised.

[OddPhenomena]

Gaijin doesn’t add ammunition based on historical reasons, otherwise the Vextra 105 would have OFL 105 F2. This is the case for a number of other vehicles. I really don’t think OFL 105 G2 would be too much of a stretch.

[Mulatu_Astatke]

DIVT 13B appears to also be modelled on the AMX 30 B2 currently. This is what the CASTOR TI would look like no (?) :

[Mulatu_Astatke]

True. But it’s not like there aren’t ‘historically accurate’ options. The AMX 32 is never going to be a meta tank due to it’s poor mobility (lacking engine power and higher weight) and insignificant armour (later prototypes only achieve ~200 KE historically) so there’s virtually nothing lost with introducing other AMX 30s instead. An AMX 30 VE with 3rd generation commander and gunner thermals and OFL 105 G2 would be a much more meta vehicle than an AMX 32 (105):

AMX 30 VE

[vickers43850]

The AMX-30B2’s night sight system in the game is modeled after the rather early DIVT-13.

The DIVT-13B that eventually entered service with the French Army AMX-30B2 was slightly different in appearance.

Castor thermal imager was originally intended for the export market. The French Army tested Castor on the AMX-30B2 circa 1983.

The protected housing and shutter of Castor TI was gradually modified in the mid-1980s period

The Castor was introduced to the French Army AMX-30B2 fleet as the DIVT-16 from around 1988.

It’s worth noting that early AMX-30B2s upgraded with the DIVT-16 still retained the PH-8B searchlight on the left side of the mantlet, a feature that became standard during Operation Desert Storm/Opération Daguet configuration (with the Galix system).

[vickers43850]

Another tank in the game that uses LLLTV is the OF-40 Mk2, although it is acted as NVD.

[vickers43850]

I have added a new issue for AMX-32 and AMX-40 to report the incorrect commander’s cupola rotating animation.
AMX-32/AMX-40 commander’s cupola should not traverse (Community Bug Reporting System)

As I mentioned, the AMX-32/AMX-40 has an impoved, fixed TOP 7 VS commander’s cupola, so the roof-mounted machine gun should rotate around the fixed cupola instead of rotating with it. The in-game model animations incorrect.

you can see the commander’s MG traverse process at 5:42 (ImagesDéfense - AMX 32.)

AMX-32 cupola

AMX-40 cupola

[LeGrandSarrazin]

Forgot AMX-30 Valorisé, which has the 120 and stab as well.