Rafale is a better 1 circle fighter, so it will have better nose authority but has a worse TWR so will struggle against the typhoon in most other manoeuvres.
Against a Gripen the Typhoon is a clear victor, can’t really see any situations where the gripen would prevail under equally skilled pilots
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Okay thanks. Adding Rafale to the list of 2 circle targets.
Lucky for the Gripen pilots btw, Im probably worse than they are so I’ll help drop the WR for the Eurofighter so it doesnt get nerfed so hard
Apologies it took me to so long to respond, I wasn’t being rude, I was just double checking and going through both threads, I debated ignoring you but that did feel rude.
That said, I don’t like your use of paraphrasing, it misrepresents what I have said in either Eurofighter thread wholly and substantially, and is slanderous. If I did say anything to that effect which I don’t believe I did, then I eat my words and apologise now.
I would however appreciate it if you quoted me rather than paraphrased, lots of your paraphrasing is commendably well worded to deliberately make it out as if I made more idiotic claims/assertions than I did actually make, indeed several are not even me and the ones that seemingly are don’t actually convey the same message that I did.
To ensure you do not misrepresent me again, please stick to quotes.
Well its a good job we have figures which will allow for it to be represented as accurately as possible excluding the positive lift canard/instructor can’t handle it debacle. I think they should replace the instructor as a no.1 priority as this is also what screws the Flankers I believe.
Yeah but you’re not going to suggest that thats a better option than a PD MAWS as well as the more than likely present RWR based MAWS, what if the missile isn’t active (I know datalink provides an ECM signature and can therefore alert you to the presence of a missile).
MAWS is PIRATE’s secondary role to be honest its just one of several layers, the primary reason for its development was the UK’s fear that Soviet 5th gens + advanced ECM they expected the Soviets to field would make their 5th gens virtually immune to any sort of radar guidance and on-par with the F-22 in the ‘don’t be seen/shot at’ category when it came to radar detection.
Apologies, I meant to specify 2-way datalink as that allows terminal guidance which as far as i’m aware, 1-way datalink cannot provide.
Indeed it does, but there’s a few things here:
Firstly, I have always held the position that 5th gens should only ever fight other 5th gens.
Secondly, I never used the word inferior. In an A2A air superiority role I would 100% agree F-22 wins, simulations have shown it and the package is designed as such, though it does lack individual features, such as a capable long range IRST or HMS, or PD MAWS.
Thirdly ECM isn’t in-game, you know that as well as I do.
Fourthly, that relies on Gaijin implementing it with its correct features and range, RAM is specifically mentioned as creating high surface friction increasing the detection range for IRST’s and if you read my other comment further up about PIRATE where I actually linked a report which specifically mentions that IR suppression leads to a black hole which actually makes it easier for the software to detect the thermal signature.
Fifth(ly) its interesting you use a mocking tone when the US and Japan have both pursued IRST’s based on either PIRATE as a system or its operating principles. Some examples are the IRST on the Japanese F-15, the Legion, the IRST 21, and the seemingly pod-mounted F-22 IRST, also it was pursued under the F-22’s development to integrate IRST into the UV MAWS but never employed afaik.
Sixth, I never said ASRAAM was gonna dome an F-22 from 100km away, just that it was a better missile than AIM-9X which was absolutely true until BLK 2 and arguably is still true based on what is frankly a better engagement principle.
Seventh, I never said Eurofighter beat F-22 in WVR funnily enough, in the comment you quoted I literally said ‘anything up to the F-22’.
What actually happened was people compared individual systems and made the assertion that it would be the best 4th gen fighter to counter the F-22 given the extensive systems and fusion, you made many incorrect claims (as did I) we were both educated and i’m sure have taken extensive notes from the discussion. What didn’t happen at least from my mouth was me saying the Eurofighter was flat-out better than the F-22, ever.
Regards.
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I mean I would wait for dev to see how they model it, but given they have already modelled the J-10 and gripen, i really see no excuse to fuck up the typhoon and rafale since they will be similar but with more thrust
Of course. We dont even know If or when its being released. But this thread IS for discussing the Typhoon and what it should be able to do
I honestly believe that the EFT and rafale are the only aircraft in the world that would pit a fair fight against a raptor within 30km, provided an example where both sides fired and missed their fox-3s and it was moving towards an IR engagement, the typhoon would simply win by using an ASRAAM at a range about twice that of the realistic envelope of an AIM-9X, same applies for MICA-IR, and this is possible exclusively through the use of PIRATE and the french equivalent.
Furthermore, moving into a dogfight the Eurocanards are more than capable of holding a candle to the raptor, just because it has 2d TVC does not make it some UFO, if the raptor pilot is stupid enough to engage TVC in anything but a stall fight with a Typhoon then he is dead, the only way a raptor wins that fight is energy and abusing his thrust advantage, however we both know that in WT the raptor will more than likely be piloted by your average US main so it’s more than a win for a Eurocanard in that situation.
From memory, Rafale was the first aircraft to simulate success in that kind of scenario on exercise against raptor.
Gripen has had significantly more than 3 rounds of nerfs. A good dozen have been undocumented. It is currently underperforming and it only got butchered because yanks believed that nothing should beat their F16, and 3 minor nations with better players on average than the yanks happened to receive the platform.
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Yeah that tracks with previous experience. But I didnt know it got THAT many undocumented changes.
I don’t know just how close a dogfight between F16s and Gripens should be realistically. All I know is: “F16 is the best ratefighter, nothing you can do against it. When it is out in front the pilot just braces, goes full aft stick and counts one potatoe two potatoe and it is on your six.”
Except thats a paraphrased piece from the Tomcast podcast and describes how the Tomcats didnt really have a solution for them. I think that might indeed not really be the case for other jets.
I do imagine Typhoon basically being a pre nerf Gripen on steroids. Which is indeed also kind of why I am doubtful about its potential performance in game lol.
“Typhoon OP, my “insert jet” cannot just do a flat turn and win against it. pls nerf”
wild statement
F16A and the Gripens we have were relatively on par IRL.
Hamster wheel sim when 🤔
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I think saying the F-16 is the best rate fighter is just straight up wrong especially up against gen 4.5+ aircraft. I wonder if this myth mostly came from a certain DCS youtuber that does dogfight content. Even in DCS, the 16C has the 5th best sustained turn rate on competitive dogfight settings behind the Hornet, Mirage 2000, F-14, and JF-17, although arguably the top 2 are overperforming and the 16C is underperforming a little. Even in WT, the only top dogfighting F-16 is the blk 10 variant which can actually turn well at lower speeds while the 16C is stuck rating at 800+ kph and the opponent just pulls in and shoots.
Basically, the F-16 is going to continue eating shit when more newer airframes come along. One thing people haven’t really talked about yet is the EF2000’s speed, how does it compare to the F-15C and E at altitude, can it do the BVR larp better than the top planes in WT right now?
given it can supercruise with a combat A-A load and has a much better radar, it’s safe to say that it will fulfil and excel at the same role as the F-15E
Knowing how, comparatively absurd the Typhoon would be in game if modeled accurately. What’s your take? Are we seeing it soon, with no real competitors being in game unless Rafale, Gripen E, J10B? are introduced too. Or might we see a neutered version of it?
Just speculating is all
I’d rather they didn’t add it or added a DA. than added it neutered personally. I wasn’t expecting it until June to be honest.
But Rafale and J10B are also on the list, F-15E is already ingame so this early one will already have contemporaries.
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Well we don’t know that it IS coming at all. But yeah. I think I prefer it introduced accurately too. If we can’t have that due to game balance reasons then i’d rather not see it at all. Which hurts to say when I can only drive the F4F-KWS and a Mig29 for “top tier”
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I was expecting Swiss F-18 for Germany to be honest. If not EFT then Swiss Hornet could be soon.
I’d personally be fine with either as long as its better than ICE. But Ice is atleast viable at its current BR of 13.0.
BUT I’d prefer Eurofighter since it is why I started the German tech tree in the first place