Dropping chaff at the right frequency is the way to notch in any plane with chaff, just that bigger chaff gets picked up at further distances.
Sounds like it.
Every single time I mention them fixing BOL. The response is always…
“But there is nothing wrong with BOL, here is a clip of me notching under controlled conditions”
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Yep, precisely.
So with chaff 1/4 the size of regular chaff for absolutely no reason…
The pickup range is very short.
what that sound more like is your gameplay with BOL is different with others.
which is not ideal when your trying to buff them
iirc BOL chaff is pretty similar to regular chaff. But BOL flare is a lot weaker than regular flares. Chaff persistence also doesn’t matter that much due to angle gating on most arh/cw missiles.
That doesn’t make any sense at all.
I have 0 issues noticing with normal or large CMs in any aircraft. But BOL is always a chore.
Gets even worse when you also include BOL flares on something like the Harrier
tbf Harrier is as hot as the sun. If missiles can ignore reg flares for them then BOL won’t matter anyways
Exactly.
BOL flares though should be much stronger than normal flares.
Proper BOL flares would probably actually be strong enough to protect a harrier
Catwerfer video diving into arh mechanics seems to suggest that BOL chaff isn’t as weak as 1/4th of regular chaff.
Reverse-Engineering Fox-3 Logic | Angle Gate, Notch Bias, IOG, RCS Explained
video is 10 months ago
This is likely incorrect then.
It is possible given the bug report is 3 years old. Gameplay wise I did feel that BOL chaff is a bit weaker (which is true) but it was still picking up at roughly similar ranges to standard chaff. Notched Aim-120s and 7Ps at similar ranges with my Tonka F.3
Detection ranges might be similar. but “RCS signature” could still be 1/4 the size. Meaning it might detect it at the same range, but not necessarily spoof it the same way. At least not without dropping a pattern of CMs
This is applicable to all chaff regardless of size. It’s just that with larger caliber it gets pick up sooner (due to larger detection range) so the missile “bites” earlier. BOL/standard chaff thus feels “weaker” because the missile has to be closer to you before it can bite reliably.
That said, this is usually offset by the plane having 2x or more in BOL chaff than regular chaff planes, so spamming more BOL chaff delivers the same effect regardless.
This, in addition to BOL also having a smaller RCS signature, is a double whammy
RCS signature doesn’t matter as much if the missile bites onto the chaff (and gets defeated) at the given ranges. My only issue with RCS signature is missiles biting onto launched munitions.
A larger RCS signature, means it is more likely to “bite” and not ignore the chaff.
But since the range of detection of BOL chaff is similar to regular, I doubt that difference is as major as you say. The difference between BOL/reg chaff detection range is a lot smaller than that between reg and large caliber.
For what it’s worth, the performance of BOL chaff did not hinder the typhoon from being competitive. At least in regard to the current meta. Even in the F.3, it was weaker but not to the point where I would have wished to have a smaller number of regular chaff instead.
As I said. I have 0 issue notching in most aircraft, whether they have standard or large, even with a weak RWR.
But anything with BOL is a chore, and usually requires chaff patterns of 20+ to do consistently.
and if it doesnt matter, then what harm is there in increasing the size of BOL from being 1/4 that of normal chaff to just the same size as regular chaff.
Didnt necessarily say it does, its annoying as hell though when you are in a notch, dropping chaff and still get hit by a Fox-3 missile with no good explanation other than “BOL”
But it is very very very annoying when people say “no BOL is fine, because the Typhoon, Gripen, etc are doing fine” and then just totally ignore aircraft like the Tonkas, Harriers and Viggens as just being irrelevant as “no one plays them”.
I still want Phimat pods in addition to full strength BOL on the F3s, especially the F3 Late.
But notching in the F3 is such a chore compared to anything else imo. A fully laden Tornado GR4 is stupidly easy compared to a low fuel F3.
It usually takes me up to 10 in better conditions. I’ve done notches with as little as 3-5 pops of chaff.
I never said i was against upsizing BOL chaff. I’m just stating that there seem to be a misconception on BOL chaff performance.
Usually it’s due to an imperfect notch than just BOL alone. Sometimes overspamming BOL leads to a “bread crumbing” effect that leads the missile back to you.
Remember that the angle gate works on all caliber of chaff and requires chaffing at a specific frequency regardless of chaff size. The only real difference is how soon the missile bites. This is usually a bit more than once per second for most arhs, and more than twice per second for MICAs.
Viggen has a bad rwr. Tonkas have bad fm. Harriers have sun-heated engines and being a subsonic. All these planes have factors that would’ve made regular chaff less effective as well.