while multipathing…
so you didnt change your altitude while notching
meaning the missile still tracked you with IOG
Not against a MICA… Seriously, this missile takes all the fun out of <20 km engagements as it’s really difficult to notch with chaff (relocks like there’s no tomorrow) and impossible to notch without chaff… Below 5 km a kill is guaranteed due to TVC.
You can, but it’s indeed more difficult because you have to be very precise
TVC has nothing to do with what I think you are trying to say, but the mica is the fastest accelerating missile. If you are close to a notch you can still avoid them at short range, but if they keep being guided by DL is very hard
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Which is not difficult flying-wise, but rather that your RWR doesn’t display the angular marker anymore at a certain distance and you have to guess it by two intersecting circles. At a distance it displays the line which you can use easily to fly in the according angle but below 10 km it’s just circle to circle or even worse: text to circle (“MSL” text as an indicator is diabolical as you don’t really know where the center of this text is supposed to be). Your only help is the MAW indicator (if it works).
I mixed two things here. I didn’t mean <5 km in a notch but in a frontal engagement where you don’t have enough time to notch anymore. At that distance an AIM-120 is easily outmaneuvered by flying a screw or a hard pull at the last second. The MICA always hits its mark due to its insane agility. Best seeker with smallest notch-angles, best agility due to TVC and fastes acceleration while maneuvering instantly off the rail. This missile was born to rule the furball meta.
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Yes but the aim120 is essentially the only missile that will have trouble in that scenario, you don’t need TVC missiles, even a derby or pl12 will be fine.
What TVC can do is that you can do the same short range “head on” while having your nose offset from the target. For example at a 2-3km shoot you can maybe be 45° off target and the mica will pull in without overshooting, a R77 might not.
Even if the mica overshoots it can turn around but will be very slow and easy to outrun
Are you talking about the typhoon RWR perchance? That one has a bad setup with a “long scope” range which makes judging missile distance and angles at short range virtually impossible. The maws helps somewhat if it sees the missile
Hmm… Just thought of another suggestion idea. RWR range settings. So you could cycle through the range displayed on the RWR
I think the fact that we can know the distance of a missile in the RWR from a relative scale is already OP as it is. It represents signal strength but in WT they all seem to have the same intensity so we can use that to judge range relatively accurately.
Maybe modern RWR/maws systems would be able to do it but we can use the old ones for that purpose too
I have no problems dodging these missiles with maneuvers in a short range head-on (even if it’s close sometimes but not close enough for the proxy to trigger). The MICA always hits directly (no proxy needed), so it’s not even close to a miss.
TVC is not only helpful for HOBS but to hit maneuvering targets as long as the motor burns as it can pull way higher AoAs independent of airspeed, which is my problem.
Exactly. You have to use the RWR to dodge if your MAWs hasn’t triggered. And that’s nearly impossible <10 km. Every missile is rather forgiving because of the 15° notch-angle, but the MICA has only 7° (not even half of the other missiles) so you have to be ±3,5° precise which is near impossible with that visualization currently ingame.
Im talking about 2-3km ranges, you wont out manoeuvre a derby and the warhead will explode in your nose.
Are you talking about gun ranges? I never encounter such situations because im putting myself at a very high risk of trade-off. Within 5-4km I will hobs and of that fails somehow I am trying to set up an overshoot and hope I don’t get aim9m’d in the process
If you are somewhat slow its still easily done, but if a mica caught you going mach Jesus while trying to notch you are probably dead
I’m talking about the 5 km range. In <2 km ranges you won’t outmaneuver any missile (if it’s already off the rails at that distance) except it’s an AIM-120 because it’s pull is so insanely sad and the delay between “off-rail” and “start maneuvering” is so long. No chance to hit anything with that missile at this distance if the target is maneuvering xD
5km range you can’t even outmanoeuver the aim120a unless you are already turning away and not going full head on
Oh you can. Just dip downwards a second before you pull hard up (you have to test a bit to find out the right timing). The dip will lead the missile downwards on an interception curse causing it to hard down, so it has to pull way harder upwards the moment you pull hard upwards, causing it to fly past below you. This way almost never lets me down, except you overdo it and rip your wings in ARB (or going against a MICA of course).
Most missiles have a problem if you turn into them at short distances while they’re flying on an interception course (RF and IR alike) as they like to overshoot under your plane.
I’ve seen that happen (against derby) even at 10km range and it seems to be a tracking bug.
Here the F16 dips down and then pulls to the side, the missile stops tracking for no apparent reason. Even though the F16 isnt doing extreme manouvers.
I need to test what you’ve said, maybe we’re up to something here.
Oh I didn’t mean they stop tracking. You can see them trying to pull towards you again the moment you pull up but miss as they physically can’t keep up by not being able to pull the nessecary AoA. It works against every missile (R-77 being the most difficult and MICA being impossible to defeat that way).
This is also difficult to pull off in some planes as the F-16 for example is really sluggish if you try to pull up right after a nose-down. The easiest are the F/A-18A/C as they have a really high AoA control and onset.
The missiles seem to also have a problem with overleading, could be related. Check the link to a different but related thread in that link I posted if you want.
Ah yes, watched the video now. It’s exactly like this only that the maneuver I do is vertical and not horizontal. Didn’t test if it also works horizontal until now ^^
But I can tell you, this maneuver works since years with the other missiles too and even IR missiles are defeatable this way.
I never tried because it seems counter intuitive and I use the roll and pull thingy as a last resort that works against some missiles like the aim7.
The instantaneous turn from like -5g to 10g+ might be causing some tracking bug it seems.
I’ll try that next time.
Interesting. For me it’s intuitive as I “lead the missile on” into a direction I will never be, effectively baiting it (throwing a feint).
I say counterintuitive because why should I pull 5G into one direction and 10 to the opposite when I can do 10G to one and roll into 10G to other instead?
Modern jets all roll quite fast except the flankers so I never thought of doing negative Gs for that