Eurofighter Typhoon - Germany's Best Fighter Jet

[kedrigern]

@MotorolaCRO

Your arguments have been shut down hours ago, now I’m mostly replying to your rage posting as it’s honestly amusing to see someone malding this much over his aircraft not being handheld in every area.

also dont particularly understand why you have the idea that people here are malding instead of just replying to things you wrote. Ive not seen anyone throw slurs, directed swears or raging and REEEEEEEing in here.
Particularly this says more about you than others if you just constantly assume that anyone who disagrees with you is malding and raging at their screen like the german kid from the meme.

People here have different opinion than yours, they arent necessarily malding. If anything atmost they are being frustrated by lackluster understanding from the other side.

[SidewaysCube946]

@kedrigern

Statement of a century.

Mirage 2000D RMV - 2021

When is the last time someone complained about that

[MotorolaCRO]

@Jεcka

This is comparing apples to oranges.

It’s a perfect comparison. You’re removing a certain feature from all vehicles at a given BR, which will make some much worse in return.

@Jεcka

F&F Brimstone is a selling point of the Eurofighter, F&F Maverick is a selling point of the F-16C, and F&F Hammers are the selling point of the Rafale

Not (and shouldn’t be) at current 12.7.

@Jεcka

Must’ve ruffled your feathers seeing as you once again are bringing this up lol, good.

I’m just pointing out how childish you are, all the while you’re trying to show yourself as someone that’s hasn’t been emotional over a topic on the internet.

@Jεcka

Su-34 not being as good at CAP duties as the Eurofighter, Rafale or the F-16C is not an argument for it to be able to be the only aircraft with ripple firing F&F missiles while others cannot

Ys it is.
You not understanding how balancing works is not my issue honestly.

@Jεcka

Following this logic, the T-80BVM and T-90M should both lose 3BM-60 as they are better vehicles than Challenger 2s and the Arietes, surely you’d accept this bargain, surely you wanna practice what you preach and stop presenting yourself as nothing more but a hypocritcal ignoramus, right?

Yes if everything that’s better than C2s and Arietes loses their rounds as well. It would actually make things more balanced, which isn’t something you’d really want.

You thinking I wouldn’t accept this just shows me you absolutely have zero idea what balance is.

@Jεcka

as your whole concept of balance relies on making just one nation stand out, and for the rest to rot.

Your concept of balance would make one nation stand out, but in a bad way.
Meanwhile my concept accepts pros/cons system in which every vehicle will have it’s selling points.

[kedrigern]

Does it have better capabilities or worse capabilities than something introduced decades ago?
Does it have access to better ordinance than something introduced decades ago?

Date at which something is introduced still plays a big role. There are ofc tank or planes that have been introduced later but are weaker than for example some earlier vehicles and vice versa, but to completely disregard it is not very smart.

[MotorolaCRO]

@kedrigern

Statement of a century.

?

@kedrigern

Dont need is not the same as cant.

True combined arms mode would force just that in every game.

@kedrigern

The entire existence of SPAAs is tied to the existence of planes in ground RB. How are you not understanding this.

And this is why some are useless when nothing in the air spawns.
Gaijin really didn’t think through this “combined arms” concept very well.

[MotorolaCRO]

@kedrigern

Particularly this says more about you than others if you just constantly assume that anyone who disagrees with you is malding and raging at their screen like the german kid from the meme.

You surely missed that infant wishing me a terrible day, right ?
We can disagree all we want, but doing things like that is just childish and that’s why I’m calling (only) him out for that.

[Jεcka]

@MotorolaCRO

It’s a perfect comparison. You’re removing a certain feature from all vehicles at a given BR, which will make some much worse in return.

And this guy has still yet to notice that this is the exact same type of argument he’s peddled of how it’d be fine to remove core capabilites of Western multi-roles airframes as long as it makes Su-34 the best…

Not (and shouldn’t be) at current 12.7.

And why is that? Because the airframes can be used in dogfight? Non-argument.

I’m just pointing out how childish you are, all the while you’re trying to show yourself as someone that’s hasn’t been emotional over a topic on the internet.

So straw-grasping, aight.

Ys it is.
You not understanding how balancing works is not my issue honestly.

Where were you when Su-25SM3 or MiG-27K were demolishing this “balance” you’ve been speaking of, again? For sure you weren’t defending them or giving them silent treatment.

Yes if everything that’s better than C2s and Arietes loses their rounds as well. It would actually make things more balanced, which isn’t something you’d really want.

How are you this goddamn blind? This is just the F&F IR argument but for ground vehicles, you support one but not the other.

Your concept of balance would make one nation stand out, but in a bad way.

Why isn’t France standing out with Hammers?
Why isn’t US standing out with Mavericks?
Why isn’t Russia standing out with Kh-38s?
Why isn’t Sweden standing out with Mavericks (again)?

Almost as if giving F&F IR variant of Brimstones (limited to 6 per aircraft) wouldn’t change anything, and wouldn’t make Germany, Italy, or the UK stand out in any way. If everyone has a weapon system like that then nobody stands out, simple logic to follow, well, not for you.

As such, here, your slippery slope fallacy.

[SidewaysCube946]

Date has absolutely 0 bearing on how things are balanced. For example the CM52 is from 1952 but is 2.3. The only thing that matters is vehicle capabilities compared to others. If you take date of introduction into account you would get nonsense like the M60 and Object 279 at the same BR or Yak-38 at the same BR as the F-15A.

[Jεcka]

@SidewaysCube946

Date has absolutely 0 bearing on how things are balanced

It’s case by case. Leopard 2A7 (DOI 2021) is vastly superior to the Merkava Mk.4 (DOI: 2006), but still yes, DOI shouldn’t be looked at when considering balance and instead statistics (note: not how much SL or RP something’s making, but how good its K/D and K/B are as they are the best indicator of something’s ability to perform).

[quartas121]

I think the MiG-23ML or MLD would be same BR as F-15A if going off of dates

[quartas121]

2021? Really? There really is no reason not the add the SEPv3 now huh

[Jεcka]

There never has been a reason to hold it back. In fact it should’ve been added with the 2A7V, and SEPv2 with a 2A6MA3 like 2 years ago.

[SidewaysCube946]

When introducing a vehicle it should be balanced off what it can and cannot do. After its introduction both that and statistics should be considered. Date really does not mean anything in any balance.

[kedrigern]

it was more meant that generally more modern tanks, planes, helicopters, etc. are more capable than their older counterparts. Obviously type of vehicle also matters, for example Fox is 7.7 yet has been made in 1967, fighting stuff like Maus or Tiger 2s.

So yes, date of introduction is not the only thing that matters, but for example comparing T55s or T62s that were created during the start of cold war to for example M1A1 that has been made with much more modern technology and obviously at a later date in history the date of release does matter.

The reason why i pointed out specifically the T80BVM from 2018 and the Leopard 2A5 from the 90s is because they are capability wise not at the same level.
The BVM has Relikt ERA on 90% of the frontal profile as well as side skirts, good handling (apart from the gun depression), UFP that is able to stop every APFSDS round ingame if shot outside of the drivers hatch, with generation 3 gunner thermal sight.
2A5 despite being at the same BR is a nearly 2 decade older tank with gen 1 thermals, very strong turret and very weak hull that will absolutely lead to a one shot from front, spall liner in turret only.

Now mind you i am not saying that 2A5 should be reduced in BR or that its a bad tank or any of that, i am just trying to show you that especially when it comes to modern vehicles, the date at which they have been produced does affect what kind of capabilities they have available.

[Morvran]

2S38 which has yet to enter production, being a lower BR than 1990s tanks is really annoying and puts it so far ahead of any other IFV at that BR

[YeeT_and_Delete]

Lol, is this topic even about the Eurofighter anymore, or is it about GRB and FnF missiles?

[MotorolaCRO]

@Jεcka

And this guy has still yet to notice that this is the exact same type of argument he’s peddled of how it’d be fine to remove core capabilites of Western multi-roles airframes as long as it makes Su-34 the best…

FV losing it’s stab would be like Su-34 losing it’s KHs.

Other aircraft with IRs are something like if other 7.3s had stab. FV in that situation would be much worse than it is at the moment.

@Jεcka

And why is that? Because the airframes can be used in dogfight? Non-argument.

Su-34 is susceptible to air threats which will shut it down completely.

@Jεcka

How are you this goddamn blind? This is just the F&F IR argument but for ground vehicles, you support one but not the other.

Removing rounds from best MBTs would bring them closer to suffering ones.
Removing missiles from best aircraft would bring them closer to suffering ones.

Yes, BVM and others could lose best ammo in order to make Arietes more interesting/usable.
Same as how western planes could lose their IRs.

Su-34 is the Ariete in this case, not BVM or 2A7.

@Jεcka

Almost as if giving F&F IR variant of Brimstones (limited to 6 per aircraft) wouldn’t change anything

At this point Su-34 would be nothing else but an air version of Ariete, with slightly better firepower (against one type of enemies) while being worse at everything else.

[kedrigern]

i think it got sidetracked from Eurofighter getting realistic SAL Brimstones into discussion about Kh38 and Su34, the date of production thing is just a small offshoot i guess

[Morvran]

Unfortunately, aircraft performance is often handicapped by ground modes.

Most people see War Thunder as GRB with aircraft and ships kinda as a secondary thing in the background.

Its really annoying seeing aircraft get hamstrung in air modes because of balancing tank modes. Like Brimstones not being FnF. Actually really impacts the Typhoon’s multirole ability in air sim. Even just historically accurate Brimstone 2s will be an uphill battle.

[luque13]

Not going to fix turret ring weakness though.
The M1 like the CR2 needs a model overhaul