So, the turret split is and the armor plate between the two halves is… partially implemented.
Only “partially,” because it doesn’t work correctly. I got a half of my turret destroyed, and I wasn’t able to shoot from that turret at all. If you get penetrated the entire “Main caliber turret” gets disabled, making it impossible to ever keep the one half alive.
Bug report: Community Bug Reporting System
Well Gaijin and french engineers wil never see eye to eye:
All life is War Thunder, and you’re in it Not a bug
Reducing the risk by adding a bulkhead ≠ Turret won’t be knocked out anyway if penetrated.
But it’s a technical limitation anyway.
I’m really tempted to go there as I am 2h away from Vincenne, but it won’t be before few weeks as they will be closed this weekend and I won’t be available for few weeks.
But if someone has already planned to go for this purpose, can he please manifest himself so I don’t waste my time.
I will also ask for the few Richelieu docs to see If I can find anything, I don’t want to do that again in 2-3 years when it will be planned for ingame release
Either way I may find the correct shell pen values that may increase the in game stats, or it will expose, once again, the unwillingness and bad faith of devs in regards to the French tree.
Well I am farther then you from Vincenne and the next few weeks are going to be busy for me so I can’t go have a look.
Reducing the risk by adding a bulkhead ≠ Turret won’t be knocked out anyway if penetrated.
As I said in the bug report - disabling the turret rotation does make sense.
But why bother modelling bulkhead and two separate batches of Main caliber guns, if you won’t allow for the other pair to shoot when the first pair is destroyed?
The whole point of that unique design of the vessel is to allow the separation of the two and prevent knocking out all 4 cannons on one penetration. Sure, I guess it’s not guaranteed to work every single time, but there should be a real possibility of preventing all for guns for being knocked out.
But it’s a technical limitation anyway.
That’s fair. But I’d expect this response from the bug moderator 😑 I guess we should get used to not-expecting-obvious-new-features in the naval mode any more 😢
You happen to know if there’s any perspective to get it properly implemented at a later date?
It’s kinda crazy just how issue-ridden and disappointing the implementation of Dunkerque’s is. No separate magazines, incorrect turret mechanics, main gun shells being SAPCBC… ☠ I’m still going to grind her and try to use, but… so much wasted potential for something that should have been the first French 7.0.
It is not worthy to introduce a potentially complex, yet almost pointless mechanics just for one specific ship. Bear in mind even if the remaining half turret can still elevate the gun and fire it will be off target since the turret can no longer rotate to compensate the movement of target and own ship’s multi axial swinging.
Also from point of realism I am highly doubtful of whether one half turret can still be operational when there’s a shell explode directly inside the other half. irl Jean Bart’s turret was even knocked out by non-penetration, and from WW1 we have examples of shells that failed to penetrate the barbette even put out a turret from service. The idea of having a bulkhead inside to prevent the entire turret to be knocked out from direct penetration doesn’t seem very realistic to me.
To be fair, it’s not just “one specific ship” if we were to look forward. King George V class, Richelieu class, Normandie class, Nelson Class, Littorio Class or, if Gaijin would ever come around to adding austro-hungarians, Tegetthoff class shared the same mechanic, with a (very) varying degrees of protection between the turret compartments, all aiming to prevent taking down all guns of the turret after a single penetration (not necessarily through the turret face). So it wouldn’t be for just one specific ship, but… 7 different classes that I can think of (including Dunkerque class of 2 vessels).
I totally get that being penetrated by heavy shells like Mutsu’s 41-centimetre, shouldn’t just blindly be negated by the bulkhead, and I totally get that maneuvering targets could easily avoid getting hit by a gun on a turret that cannot traverse, but IMHO the implementation of the feature would add to the experience and would be a really interesting mechanic adding to the depth of the gameplay.
Instead… it ended up being yet another point on the list of disappointments around Dunkerque. None the less, I appreciate the input, it’s a fair point about just how efficient such protection would be, but we don’t have to wonder much, as the game mechanics already account for the penetration of the shrapnel through armor (however good/bad that implementation might be).
Do you think we can directly call ? Last time i did to those guy they said they had nothing for the shells ( not Vincennes the services historique de la défense)
I guess it depends on how they operate? They might have a preferred line of communication for such inquiries, some by email and others by phone. Some of them might be willing to digitize certain documents for a fee by request if you can tell them which one you want specifically via an email inquiry, but from my experience, they can charge a lot for that. If they have an online catalog of what they have, that is very helpful for finding the location of the documents you want ahead of time. Otherwise, you have to ask a researcher (or someone else that’s willing to go in person) to visit the archives for you.
@thefrenchtank @Admiral_Bofors @Eleania @Spino2010
When I was a student back in 2016/2018, I spent a lot of time in the SHD for the master thesis I wrote at the time. If I recall correctly, you had to register there and make yourself a member card (with immediate effect, you didn’t have to wait.) Once that was done, you could consult the archives, but not right away.
In order to do that, you’d have to fill out a form indicating the documents you wanted to see and when you wanted to see them, so that the quartermasters could go and seek them out for you. You then have to wait a few day, then you could consult them within the building for as long as you liked. The documents I consulted where in hefty carboard boxes, but that’s not systematically the case. Once finished, gave them back to the quartermaster.
Now, my memory’s a bit hazy but I vaguely recall that the form you needed to consult archives was available on their website, you could fill it remotely and it was taken into account. Keep in mind though that this was quite a while ago and things may have changed since then.
When I was there, you perfectly had the right to take photos of the documents, so you could review them at home without needing to spent the day inside the castle (Yes, the SHD is within the old Vincenne fortress). So don’t hesitate to take photos of anything that could be even remotely relevant to the Dunkerque performances.
I would have done it myself, since I still have my card but I live on the other side of the country now so it’s impossible for me to go back to the capital.
It doesn’t hurt to ask either, give them a call to ask for procedures.
The building is this one by the way :
Yeah but if they didn’t had access to the Vincennes docs, how could they knew ?
I think they might have missunderstood your demand as it is not a common one, and they have just looked If a doc was named “Capacité de pénétration Dunkerque” and they didn’t recalled having one.
I don’t know if calling or emailed them will be all that informative, I do think someone need to go there and look for the numbers.
It might take some time to do that.
Ok but If you tell me that I have to go there twice ,because as I understood on the website, you have to go in person to complete the registration in order to have a reader number and a card.
But you can’t book a doc consultation if you don’t have your reader number, right ?
I will maybe call them next week to know if I can register and book docs for the same day, but I won’t have the time to go there 2 time, sorry guys.
Yes, might as well call to see if you can do both on the same day, even if that mean booking the archives in advance.
Still no changes on the main shell… I guess we gonna have to stick with SAP till someone dig up some documents calling it as AP shell. Or some official penetration data.
At least they improved the dispersion(I think)
Sorry mate, it’s gonna be hard to find the appropriate sources for that. As Frenchmen, we have a lead, only thing left to do is go to the archives and hope for the best, but it’s a bit complicated for most of us right now.
Still eager to see your future vid on that beautiful beast.
Don’t need to be sorry mate, that’s not your job to search for documents ;)
Hey if someone gonna find some proof that would help to improve shell performance, it will be awesome, but if not then we’ll have to do best with what we got.
It’s still a slight improvement over previous top shell for France.
I can’t wait to take her to EC ;)
I await the video can i ask is it going to be a triple 6.7 threat vid or separate ones
I doubt it will be a “beast”, rather just good battleship, nothing more. Dunkerque at least 2 years late, not to mention that should have been added in TT 1.5 years ago (La Royale update)
