540mm of pen a 1000 is just blasphemous, if anyone can find or have a proper french source for the 330 mm/50 (13") Model 1931, please let them know !!!
Here you go once again, the good old Gajin hate for French TT…
So someone litteraly called the french “Services Historique de la Defence” and they answered they don’t have any numbers about the AP values … (Basically we are scewed Gajin Devs will do what they want)
Then the topic shifted towards the fact that the shell is identified as a SAP shell but IR it is more or less an APCBC shell and most likely acted like one, even the germans classified it as an AP shell.
But a Bug Reporting Manager brushed aside in the old cold fashioned way this idea, because “YoU Don’T HaVE SouRcES”:
Time to send them the actual shell that rust somewhere in a museum
That whole “it’s SAP shell” seems to come from NavWeaps’ original research, not backed by any sources. On a purely factual level, it might be correct, I do not have the competency to judge that.
But it seems quite inconsistent given that Izmail’s shells are marked as HE (not even HE-BF), because that’s what is in the Russian sources, even though effectively they are SAP (see the table at the end of this comment). Yet Dunkerque’s shells are AP in the French sources, and yet, we don’t get them marked as AP. 🤔
Whether the % of explosive filler in the shell is high enough to suggest these are SAPCBC is also highly debatable, I think.
(Image of the Dunkerque’s 330 mm from the French Battleships, 1922–1956 by John Jordan and Robert Dumas showing the cap and ballistic cap (CBC) part of the shell)
If we’re playing with doing the original research, like NavWeaps did, here’s a table of a number of shells of somewhat comparable calibres that we already have in the game, and the percentage of the HE filler:
Gun
Clibre
In-game shell type
Total mass
Mass of the bursting charge
%
330 mm/50 Model 1931
330
HE
522
63,5
12,16%
12-inch/52 pattern 1907
305
SAPCBC
470,9
55,2
11,72%
36 cm/45 Type 41
356
SAPCBC
635,58
68,64
10,80%
14-inch/52 pattern 1913
356
HE (Izmail)
732
75,85
10,36%
12 inch/50 Mark XI
305
SAPCBC
386
36,3
9,40%
SK L/45
380
SAP
750
67,1
8,95%
12-inch/50 Mark 8
305
HE (Alaska)
426,38
35,31
8,28%
13.5 inch/45 Mark 5(H)
343
SAPCBC
635
50,3
7,92%
14 inch/45 Mk.12
356
HE (Texas)
635
47,62
7,50%
330 mm/50 Model 1931
330
SAPCBC
560
20,3
3,63%
305 mm/50 SK L/50
305
APC
405,5
13,6
3,35%
SK L/45
380
APCBC
750
25
3,33%
13.5 inch/45 Mark 5(H)
343
APCBC
635
20,2
3,18%
12 inch/50 Mark XI
305
APC
389,8
12
3,08%
12 inch/50 Mk.7
305
APC
394,62
11,34
2,87%
12-inch/52 pattern 1907
305
APCBC
470,9
12,96
2,75%
305 mm/50 SK L/50
305
SAP
410
10,8
2,63%
305 mm/54 B-50
305
APCBC
470,9
12,2
2,59%
14 inch/45 Mk.12
356
APCBC
635
15,55
2,45%
13.5 inch/45 Mark 5(H)
343
APCBC
639,6
15
2,35%
12-inch/50 Mark 8
305
APCBC
517
7,89
1,53%
I don’t know about you, but the Dunkerque’s shells have a more typical filler for the AP rounds the the SAP. Yes, it is on the high end of the AP - as multiple sources directly state - but it seems to be more of an AP round none the less. 🤷♂️
Heck, now that I look at these numbers, I have more questions about HE shells from USS Texas and SAP shells from 305 mm/50 SK L/50 than I do about Dunkerque’s being APCBC 👀
That is a result of handling rooms below the barbette being included as part of the magazine/shell room’s hitboxes. This allow shells penetrate the barbette to detonate magazines with blast and splinter damage. In this case her citadel armour becomes irrelevant. She’s not the only ship having this problem but she’s certainly one of the most severely affected ones.
I’m not sure what you are referring to. Would you be so kind and elaborate / capture a picture in the x-ray view of what I should be looking at?
Because what I see in the X-ray seems to be matching the plans from French Battleships, 1922–1956 and Les cuirasses Dunkerque et Strasbourg pretty much spot-on. In the game there is no ammo directly in the ammo elevators.
It has more to do with the facts that Gajin Devs can’t help themselves but bash anything French related even when they try not to, If they ever try.
Making up stats for ships that never sailed, with magical numbers: Check
Accept a little detail that may help a ships that look terrible on the Dev Server and so mabye make it more attractive and competitive: Nuh uh
They have full controll on what a vehicle has to be in-game, It’s challenge impossible to change their minde.
I just can’t take their acts of bad faith and gaslight anymore, They are sooo predictable.
Anyway If someone has a 330 mm/50 1931 OPf that’s rusting in it’s atics, It’s maybe time to shine!
Yea, that same graphic is in the Les cuirasses Dunkerque et Strasbourg - my interpretation is that it just illustrates the process, it doesn’t mean that the ammunition handling procedures on the vessels allowed for the shells to be being permanently stored in the elevator. Also, I said “In the game there is no ammo directly in the ammo elevators.”
HK says that the “handling rooms below the barbette being included as part of the magazine/shell room’s hitboxes. This allow shells penetrate the barbette to detonate magazines with blast and splinter damage”
But the way Gaijin implemented it, seems to be actually quite beneficial to the vessel, as I do not see her to store any ammo in the elevators (barbettes or directly below the barbettes), so I’m not sure what he is referring to.
The visual appearance of the X-ray model is not relevant to the hitbox’s dimension. The space you’re looking at is part of the hitbox of the magazine and shell room even if there’s nothing visually present there.
You can inspect the actual hitbox of modules in CDK:
oooohhhh… that looks like a clear bug to me. Would be good to playtest it and report, because I tried to recreate what you are saying in the Protection Analysis, and either I don’t know what I should be looking for, or I can’t consistently reproduce it.
If I interpret the image correctly, it looks like one of the boxes for the ammo racks got accidentally put into the space where the bottom of the ammo elevator is. The box is in exactly the same shape as the magazines, and in seemingly exact same height above the waterline as the other magazines, so this cannot be intentional.
Even if it could change their minds, the devs clearly don’t deserve we bothered the people who work in this museum.
Until they take our complains more seriously and stop hide behind some foolish arguments, I won’t waste any minute of my time to do the search for them.
They don’t give a damn, because anyway, they know better than the naval historians.