Damn it they are everywhere ! X)
Edited the post, thanks for the correction ^^’
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It’s disappointing that even with Admiral_Bofors calculations proving that the shell had bigger AP cap, they still don’t want to change it to AP…
They really don’t want France to be more competitive at the top tier, and potentially attract more players to grind the tt.
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610mm would be Alaska levels of pennetration. Thats not amazing pen , but at least you could do something at the top tier.
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Yeah that would be not great but not terrible at least we could ammorack some top tier BB because with the actual shells it’s possible but very hard .
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I’m guessing the pen numbers on navweaps are… optimistic estimates.
I wouldn’t expect 700+mm on the Dunkerque guns, but 630-ish sounds pretty fair for guns broadly comparable to the Italian 320mm/44 guns, firing lighter AP shells at lower velocity.
The number on the navweaps come from the USN Empirical Formula so we can say it would be as much accurate than the jacob de marre formula used by gaijin .
From my research, those penetration values are from a well known battleship book that claims to have used the USN empirical formula. However, there’s a very detailed article that shows that even their estimates given in the book are not consistent with the USN formula and it would be reasonable to doubt the validity of such numbers (see History and Technology - The Garzke and Dulin Empirical Formula for Armor Penetration - NavWeaps).
However, none of this discounts the fact that there is a very strong case for improved AP penetration values over what we currently have.
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After i checked a bit the jacob de marre formula seems to be equivalent as the USN empirical formula in the calculation they both use the same characteritics like velocity, diameter , weight ect…
( also pretty funny to see that gaijin use a french formula for their entire game but dont make the french vehicule historicly accurate …)
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it reminds me of the very low tier french tanks
No pen, no damage, you could as well throw mashed potatoes
a way of life really X)
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also is there is in the actual game a “paper ship” ( a ship that where only draws on paper but never been fully built ) and if yes can we propose to gaijin to add the alsace class ?
and by alsace classe i mean the project C that was 2 m longer than the yamato but was in theory capable of going 32 kn and all that with an armor slightly better than the one of the Richelieu and a total weight of around 45 000 tons and 12 380 mm guns ( the more the best i guess )
but i guess if we start to add things like that then they will be obliged to add ships like the classe H to balance and to not make any jealous (but that would be intersting to see those in the game at some higher br like 8.0 or 9.0 )
They’ve never admittedly gone fully paper, Amagi with so many incorrect features is very close to it though. So the short answer is no Alsace is still not applicable, her design was also never completed which also makes it unlikely for Gaijin to go for her.
Kron also tests the boundaries as regardless of whether the combination of 6" secondaries and 12" primary guns existed (instead of 5.9" and 12" and 38cm and 6"), she still has an additional AA mount that should be a fire control director.
I don’t really care about that though I’d like to see the Alsace, Littorio UP.41 also so these nations have close-to-top tiers. Germany doesn’t need a paper H-41 to compensate, H-39 and 40 will be broken enough, the US doesn’t need Montana as Iowa will be enough, and Japan won’t need A-150 Yamato will be enough.
not totaly true the design of the Alsace was totaly finnished and the construction where going to start (but sadly france got invaded in 1940 so we never saw them being constructed ) the admirals choosed the first variant with 3 turrets of 3 380 mm guns but was also interested into the C variant that where bigger heavier and with 3 turret of 4 380 mm guns ( they didnt choosed the B one because it would have been a 406 mm gun and they didnt wanted to waste time in those research and logistic for this new calibre )
but yeah i agree that we can already have some very cool and powerfull ship that already existed for almost every nation
here is a video explaining pretty well the alsace classes
it’s in french but there is the english subtiles so it should be alright
i could be wrong but afaik the design submitted and accepted was preliminary and was due to be figured out in the year between when they were ordered and when the first could be laid down.
I think Italy and France are the only ones here that require the rules to be broken rather than bent/exploited.
eh … i mean for france we can have the Richelieu and the Jean bart that would basicly be equal to a Bismarck and if not better than a bismarck at least a way better scharnhorst but i really think that richelieu showed that she could have been scary if fully finnished and with full ammo. And for proof at Dakar ( operation Menace) she only got minor damage from 250 380 mm british shells fired in her direction at 16 km .
for italy it’s true that i dont have anything in mind that could be equal to ship like the bismarck the yamato the Iowa and the Richelieu …
I think the Littorio class was the pinnacle for Italy, and couldn’t really compete with the ships you mentioned.
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yeah littorio along with the bismarck was the reason of why the french made the Richelieu. but in the actual game i guess it would do the job
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No the main gun doesn’t exist. It ends on paper because USSR decided to concentrate their ability on 16’'. Though Gaijin can implement as it was designed to use shells of Sevastopol class.
We cannot call ‘flood that can’t be repaired, only available to make status quo’ as minor damage.
Depends on how Gaijin implements ‘composite armor’ of Littorio class, but basically firepower would be better than Richelieu due to it’s superior penetration compared to French one.
the flood that you are refering to was caused by a torpedoes exploding some depth charge that failed to exploded the night before the attack …+ it have been repaired ( as much as they could ) at dakar itself not even in a dry port . it was fully repaired at new york .
and about the firepower of the littorio i can only refer to the jacob de mare formula ( the one gaijin use ) and i can say it’s almost equivalent from each other :
richelieu :
my bad i find the real HE filler of the littorio and it’s 10 Kg making the shell being able to pen 904mm at 0 m and for the Richelieu "only " 800 mm of pen . so it’s true that the italian littorio would change how the italian fleet is in the game right now (okay-ish armor but great firepower )
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You misunderstand me, i dont mean about the 12" gun existing i mean that afaik the combination of 6" secondaries with 12" main battery was never drawn up, the 12" configuration always had 5.9" secondaries afaik
in therm of armor the littorio and the Richelieu can be equal too like the littorio have more "composite " but the richelieu have more effective thickness ( estimated at 400 mm for the belt thanks to the angle and the external extra 18 mm ) :
littorio :
the littorio have 70 mm of homogeneous armor + 280 mm of cemented armor spaced by 250 mm of “foam” called Cellulite then im not sure but it’s seems that it had a plate of 36 mm and then a plate of 24 mm behind all that . (also the belt armor is mounted on 150 mm of wood but yeah that still a plus )
richelieu :
richelieu have 18 mm + 330 mm thick plate angled at 15 ° making it in effectivness 400 mm (from what i heard ) and behind that it have like the dunkerque but a a bit bitter a 50 mm slope and again a 50 mm plate behind all that making the total of the effective thickness around 530 mm of armor