You know, what really grinds my gears in all this ? The fact that the Kronstadt was able to get highly speculative, theoretical 12" AP shells with an absurd speed and most of all an absurd amount of explosive filler for its size, better in almost every way compared to the Dunkerque shell and somehow still keeping its AP qualification but because it never actually existed, such otherwordly performances are accepted without any problem.
And since these 330mm shells actually existed, despite all things pointing toward far better performances and a structure more akin to an AP shell, it’s necessary to go above and beyond just to prove to developpers who wouldn’t hesitate to give a paper-shell the best performances possible that it’s not as bad as they make it out to be. It’s quite infuriating.
I wonder what would have happened if the Dunkerque AP shells had never left the blueprint phase. Would Gaijin have implemented them with the same generosity as with the Krons shells ? Or would they have been ignored and the Dunkerque would have been added exclusively with HE shells ?
If AP shell for Dunkerque only exist in blueprint phase, then it would be none, as you can see in Francesco Caracciolo. Current Kronshtadt’s shell is based on old russian 12’’ AP shells, only TNT changed to A-IX-2 and shell being faster.
what we really need to see is a rework of the calculator for AP shell , we need to consider the entire design of the shells and not just the speed and weight , like the AP cap is very important and the logic gaijin use of "if it’s below 10 % of the total weight then it’s a sap round " it’s not very logical …
for exemple with the dunkerque having a AP CAP being 8% of the total weight of the shell so basicly being an inbetwen of a SAP and AP shell but almost being an AP round . And yet gaijin say it’s a sap round because it’s below 10 % … dont seems very logical because that really mean we loose a lot of pen on that .
The whole situation with Dunkerque on the Dev server has been so sad it’s funny.
France didn’t have a 7.0 and couldn’t compete with the top naval nations at all, basically discouraging anyone from going beyond 5.3 in the tech tree. So Gaijin finally gets around to adding Dunkerque, but models it so disadvantageously that it can’t be a 7.0 and might even fall to 6.3 depending on how it performs on the live server.
I guess France won’t have a competitive battleship until Richelieu?
I think it needs its implementation changing and buffing, because i’m not convinced even at 7.0 she will be strong, but again I don’t think even at optimum it was going to be 7.0. It just doesn’t have that sort of design.
Does anyone know the amount of pen lost when a shell is considered SAPCBC instead of APCBC ?
one solution is, instead of making it binary (good pen or bad pen), would be to make a scale, with the amount of pen lost gradually being more important as cap weight decreases
it loose 13% of pen when it’s a SAPCBC instead of an APCBC so basicly we could have a 610 mm pen shell and even by taking an inbetwen it would be 575mm of pen , so not very great but still an upgrade even tho i really think the dunkerque deserve the 610 mm of pen for historical accuracy and also because this ship is everything but balanced at the moment …
i would be happy with the 575 tbh, If it’s closer to reality, so be it
The problem is also decompression, Dunkerque could sit at 6.7 or 7.0 easily if it wasn’t for the monsters that sit at this br. Current top BR in naval should be raised to 7.7 imo
I think the point Tictaculer was trying to make is the following :
Gaijin told many times that different nations struggle because they lack vehicles for certain eras and certain types (example : Current air Germany, or top tier tanks Italy)
Both of those are reflected in game, but when it comes to russia, which lacked battleships during interwar and WW2, they somehow get one of the most meta ship in game, ship that, mind you, didn’t exist in the state it’s portrayed in game.
One can then ask the question : why did Gaijin didn’t apply their standard behavior : tell players using russian navy that no good battleship can be expected because there is no real counterpart ?
Russian tree would have been good with cold war stuff, but would end up with a hole in the WW2 era, which is fine, plenty of trees lack something somewhere.