I dont know man, sometimes it looks that some reports just get added instantly and others almost need classified information to even be accepted. At this point it would be better to add the sources and why that was made in the devblogs
The appearance shouldn’t be an issue. The “armor” is an armored cavity. Plates of varying materials, demension, angles, and spacing can all be changed within this cavity (say lfp or cheeks) to then change armor values. As tech has evolved, materials have evolved, therefore armor has evolved.
Leopard 2A7Vs improved armor? You mean the armor that is worse than 2A5s in WT?
You should be thankfull your v3 isn’t getting nerfed like 2A7V was.
2 Likes
At this point, it is the only source that contains any details about the armor thickness:
Frag Out! Magazine - Frag Out! Magazine #35?
I’m doing some basic math right now but the weight difference publicly available between the SEP v2 and v3 is 2.2 metric tons. We know that armor and internal power/FCS systems were upgraded. Those 150mm RHA add-ons, are roughly 20 inches tall, 28 inches wide (for the gunner cheek), and 32 inches wide for the loader’s cheek. This is all guesswork based on how big the MRE boxes on the Click bait are. I own 2 of these boxes which are unopened, so I can use those measurements. The addon RHA for the gunner cheek would be ~364.64 kg and the loader would be 420.4 kg. These are probably off by a lot since I used the 7.85g/cm3 density for RHA. That totals 785.04kg. Probably somewhere between 700-900kg. The weight difference is 1100kg. That means the tank still has 1300-1100kg of weight attributed to the hull armor and internal systems. Let’s say internal systems are around 500kg. That still means we work with 800-600kg for the front plate. It is lengthened as referenced by overhead photography, so whatever multiplier NERA has against KE, add the equivalent NERA in the new void formed by the plate extension. Then you could ballpark a rough KE/CE protection increase. You don’t need to know the array layout, just how much was added relative to the v2. I am not the best with bug reports so I can’t really turn this into one since it’s approximate math based on what I know. It’s also assumed the NERA was increased to some degree on the turret cheeks, but that’s an entirely separate matter. I’ll see if I can find the image someone used to calculate length.
If the NERA upgrade cannot be determined, you could always just model in extra RHA for the back plate of the LFP array based on the difference in width of the weld lines. The lower plate wasn’t “extended” forward, but extended towards the driver as evidenced by the weld lines.
Using more MRE box math, the metal fenders that covers the front top of the tracks is approximately 16-18 inches long. The weld line to the front plate is roughly 9.14 inches based on that measurement. Taking that number to the IRL photo of the v3, the new weld line would be about 16 inches. If you added the same 150mm plate to that weld line, you come up to 15.04 inches. Due to the increased size of this plate, it should account for the majority of the leftover weight in my previous calculations.
I think everyone was looking at this wrong, and for the game’s sake the 150mm plate would suffice being added to the 101mm plate.
Whatever the LFP NERA RHA modifier is for the Abrams, just add 150mm of RHA to the 101mm (totaling 251mm). I googled it and it said that NERA uses a range of 0.35 to 0.65 RHA equivalent in game. Using 0.65 plus the 133mm of the front plate and rear 101 plate, you get 367mm of effective. Add on the 150mm and it jumps to 517mm. This is all PURELY guesswork, but it gives gaijin something to go on. I’m sure if they got the 150mm thickness measurement, they could get the weld line difference and do the math from there.
Image credit: M1A2C Hull armor missing - #7 by Dead_Undertaker
2 Likes
How it is worse? If I remember correctly every other leopard beside 2A7V have weaker hull, while 2A7V both provide good hull and turret protection. If I’m not mistaken
He compared the model in the game and the real tank. The Abrams model in the game is catastrophically far from perfect.
And as you can see, some M1A2 from 2016 have also “better hull”?
I don’t know why to complicate everything. Take the combat mass of the abrams, look for the mass of the M1a2 and M1a2 sepv2 turrets in X. For some reason, the results are faster and easier.
I was doing calculations based on what I could see and measure from my monitor. Gaijin clearly got the 150mm figure from somewhere, so it’s not a stretch to think they could get the weld line difference and just slap in RHA behind the 101mm plate to fill the gap. Or determine how many mm of NERA would fit the difference and just model that. Both options are incredibly simple solutions and do not require any additional sources based on what was already provided.
Are you talking about the turret or the hull? As for the turret, its armor is not interesting at all, it is unlikely to be penetrated by APFSDS anyway.
As for the hull… There is no enlarged part up to the welding line. Again, these are game issues. I provided a photo from divids and it seems to be clearly visible that the welded line recedes about the same distance from the headlights/hooks, I don’t remember what is there.
There are two proofs so far. A description in a bunch of American sources about the improvement of the hull armor and the fact that the hull became heavier by ~550 kg. Regarding m1a2, of course.
The irony is that in our game Abrams tanks are running around with a hull from the 1970s. So what, the technology didn’t develop and the armor hasn’t changed in over 50 years? Is that what Gaijin thinks? And because there is no precise public information about NERA and DU armor, Gaijin will just keep the armor stuck at a 50-year-old level. So does that mean when they introduce the Abrams X, it will also have 1970s armor?
What?
“nitpicky details”… sure.
I mean, who needs to know whether the armour upgrades even affected performance against KE or CE or both?
Who needs to know whether the armour upgrades were against threats from the front, sides, rear or top?
Who needs to know what kind of threats (other than EID/mines, as that was explicitly stated) the armour upgrades should protect against?
Who needs to know whether the armour upgrades even affect the LFP whatsoever? (Shocker but the hull isnt only the lfp)
Such unecessary details, right?
That aside, the sources you provided above mention “mutiple operationally realistic threats”
Multiple does not equal all, as should be obvious.
The most common threats that essentially every other NATO partner has improved their MBTs armour against in recent years were IEDs, Mines, and handheldt Anti-Tank weapons (RPGs/FnF Missiles).
I.e. shaped charge warheads.
Edit: It appears this is exactly the case;
“Armor with Urban Survivability Enhancements”
If you can provide any information was to what “Next Evolution Armour” even refers to, then you can certainly go from there in asessing which threats it is meant to protect against specifically, yet I cant recall seeing anything related on these forums whatsoever.
Where?
Yes, it’s true that the external size change only appears to happen to the turret while the hull retained the same shape and dimensions, but the SEPv3 test bed (PV008) shows that they tested additional weight for the hull too, so it is reasonable to assume that the hull armor also receive the new armor layout/upgrade. Not to mention the numerous mentions of hull upgrade in many documents.
1 Like
i wouldnt throw in the leo, its armour is still at 90s era standards
My only words to Gajin: Fix the Sepv3 hull, or something bad will happen here on the forum. The M1A2 Sepv3, the Abrams that a lot of players were waiting for, and they are not very happy that the hull isn’t upgraded as it should be. It will happen again, gajin, it will happen again if you do not fix the Sepv3 hull gajin.
2 Likes
yea considering that SEPv3 is the most advanced and most modern Abrams in service by USA, it would make a lot of people not happy if they implemented it poorly. I wouldn’t even mind if GRB get decompress and move most of the toptier MBT to 13.0
1 Like
@Smin1080p_WT When exact values are classified, how does Gaijin determine when an armor improvement can be represented in-game, and why are some modern vehicles modeled with inferred values while SEPv3 reports appear to require quantitative data?
1 Like