Door Gunners - The defense of all helicopters

Machinery of War Discussion Helicopter
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Greetings once again, today Im proposing the implementation of door gunners to helicopters ingame and future to come (obviusly the ones that can carry them).
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Background:
The concept of the door gunner originated during the Vietnam War, when helicopters were first used in combat in large numbers. The original personnel who served as early door gunners aboard CH-21, UH-34, and UH-1 helicopters in Vietnam, were enlisted men, with a designated and specially trained crew chief serving as both the aircraft’s maintenance manager and a door gunner.
For the majority of the Vietnam War, the principal weapon of the door gunner was a medium machine gun (MG), initially, a M1919A4 .30 caliber MG, and soon thereafter, the M60 7.62mm MG became the standard helicopter door armament system.
Most door gunners use some sort of machine gun such as the M60 or the M60D (a modification of the basic M60 for aircraft), M240, M2HB (M2 .50 cal), or more recently, the General Electric M134 minigun.
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Why add it to the game?
Many people may think that a 7mm or .50 caliber in a helicopter is useless, but my vision with this suggestion is not for anti-tank purpouses, but for anti-aircraft.
It is very common that most helicopters do not have any way to defend against planes and other helicopters, for example the UH-1 which only has rocket pods. So this would be a nice addition to give them a chance to fight back. A good example of a 7mm for air-to-air defense is the Alouette II, which with its 4mg can pilot snipe and hunt other aircraft.

How it is going to work?
I think that a proper way to implement door gunners its like a researchable modification in the Tier I. Wich being installed would add the 2 door gunners with the mg selected (normal 7mm mg, .50cal or minigun), and show the weight it requires.
The gunners could work just like the bombers gunners, the IA will shoot automaticly to any aircraft at its range (affected also by crew training), or you could also control them manually with a 3rd person view).

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Some examples of door gunners for ingame helicopters:

Would you like to see this?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

Source:

Note: Im going to upload this later in suggestions, but for now I would like to see ur comments and suggestions. Also what you think about infantry mounted shooting with small caliber for defense to helis like AH-6, and chinese and sweden helis
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8 Likes
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GG1vTb

6 Likes
3

I can walk faster than that framerate

4 Likes
4

Just give mister Strongarmed Swede an M2 Browning and call it a day

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Yes why not. They have enough potential to help helicopters fend off attacker . And can act as a warning for pilot as they’re shooting at the enemy.
Infact even turret one control by gunner should also have button to make Ai able to aim and fire by themselves. Like maybe from 1000-500m that Ai will start shooting at enemy.

5 Likes
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Should have pilot/co-pilot shooting with an M4 in the Kiowa’s
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5 Likes
7

Would love to see gau-19 on US choppers. If a chopper didn’t have an actual door gunner then it shouldn’t get one though

3 Likes
8

An actual chance for my HE shells to fuse on the bloody heli I just shot at. +1

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I would go so far as to say, let the AI gunners engage ground targets as well. Prefer air targets when in range, but engage ground targets if that’s all they can engage.

I haven’t played the Infantry game yet, but that’s another use case.

Edit: actually I think that any helicopter with a gunner, be it door gunner or primary gunner (when not player controlled), should act this way.

In a real life Apache for example it is perfectly capable of having the pilot engage one target with rockets while the gunner engages another with the chain gun.

Edit2: In the real UH-1B/C you actually are supposed to do it that way. The pilot fires the rockets and the copilot fires the flex kit guns, quad M60s, or mini guns.

1 Like
10

Thing its, helicopters like the Huey that are used for rocket runs, usually want to be as stealth as possible before doing the surprise attack, a gunner shooting a machine gun over tanks that its not able to do any damage, its only going to reveal your position for everyone to shoot down.

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Did you seriously just say that a Huey can be stealthy? You know they produce a very loins and distinct sound right?

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Perhaps a key bind to toggle “fire at will” / “cease fire” would solve that problem.

As you get to 50 caliber, 20mm, and larger weapons, especially if you have an AI gunner on a primary turret, would absolutely do viable damage.

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Thats what they do in ARMA Reforger. Gaijin should really take notes from other game titles to improve this game. Its not like theres a trademark on game mechanics.

1 Like
14

Many tank players dont even notice a heli its behind them until they get shot. This considering the helicopter flanked and its doing the rocket strike behind the tank column.

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Forgot to mention, the suggestion I made got denied, talked to a sug mod and told me I needed to make a doorgunner suggestion for each helicopter of each different nation.

2 Likes
16

Don’t you dare try it for the UH-1N or SH-3H (I already covered that) or the UH-1D late

17

Unbelievable.

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Are you going to do it?

If we get one or two going it might start an avalanche.

1 Like
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nah

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Purpose in-game:
Many of the currently in-game utility helicopters does not feature any defensive mechanism for enemy aircrafts, take for example the german UH-1 with only rocket pods and ATGMs, and the ones they have them, usually consist of fixed gun pods that replace rockets/missiles pylons.

And so thats when the door gunners come to shine, not only they do not require pylon space, but they also have a wide angle of attack against threats on your sides (some behind). Its basically the same defense bombers have, and with the help of AI gunners, they can help you pasively while you are busy doing other things.

How it would work?
For short, its literally the same way bomber gunners work. But with a different way to have them equiped.

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Helicopters that can effectively employ door gunners will carry additional crew members tasked with operating the weapons; these crew members will have access to the same AI to automatically fire upon any aerial threat that comes within range. And it would also require an additional crew training for this gunners.

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The door guns will be researchable in the modification tab of the helicopter and in case the vehicle has more than one type of weapon historically equipped, it will have a research priority order of:

5mm MG → 7mm MG → 12.7mm MG → 7mm minigun → 12.7 minigun → higher caliber

Obviusly, in case a helicopter never fielded a 12.7 minigun, for example, it will not be added in the modification tab.

Additionaly, the door guns will have to be equiped in the secondary armament tab, taking the 3 center slots, left for left gunner, center for rear gunner, and right for right gunner. The reason of this its because some helicopters are not compatible of having door gunners and certain weapons on their pylons, and because some people would like to only bring door gunners for helicopter hunting, roleplay or whatever, I mean if the game currently lets you to spawn in a Kiowa with only 2 miniguns, why not.

The Kiowa interesting case

The Kiowa’s pilot reason of being equiped with M16/M4 carbines was intended for downed pilot survival, though pilots realized that with the advantage of no having a door, they could easily deal with close infantry threats with their carbines instead of trying to do a circle to aim the fixed front weapons to the target. And so by the mid-2000s it became standard operating procedure for many Air Cavalry units to use their carbines while flying, keeping the weapon on top of the helicopter dashboard for easy accessible.

In-game it would be a very bad defense mechanism because of the very small magazine and angle of fire. But it would be a fun, but historical feature to have.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfe4wmE2uYs

1 Like