I play for free? I dropped enough money on this game. My premiums alone total in around 400 GBP. Thats not counting premium time I bough over course of 10 years. So kindly don’t claim something you have no clue about.
Guess what as well, yes spading each plane is intended way to play the game. But hey what the hell do I know about learning curve in Warthunder and games in general. It is not like I am playing this game since open beta and do game dev on the side.
Lol fr
it does teach you how to do dogfighting, energy fighting, positioning etc.
And then with the first jet you learn that energy is now even more important, with your first radars you learn the basics of the radar.
Yes Gaijin doesn’t teach you anything (the tutorials are hopelessly bad beyond taking off and landing), but just bc how tech generally progesses, the skills regarding the tech, are kinda progressive.
It is not the F/A 18 you get in DCS as a module (as opposed to the more optional premiums in War Thunder, since you have a grind and a techtree…), which has all the systems for quite the begginer.
Yes low fidelity models are the easier entry (like the FC3 pack), but those are 2 steps.
In War Thunder you have more.
First the biplanes to monoplanes, then the mostly engine and aerodynamic improvements inside the prop planes. Then you have early radar on props like the P61 (not to mention that WW2 bombers etc had also ground radar, should Gaijin implemt that soon), then you get to the early jets, changing the engine and playstyle dramatically, then you have 2nd and 3rd gen jet fighters, implementing ballistic computers and guided weaponry (even ignoring the FritzX) together with usefull radar in air RB (previously mostly only useable in sb) to then making that into the better guided weaponry (laser-guided, EO-guided, EEGS, soon probably more) together with flares and stuff.
WT has a ridiculously steep learning curve to the point of often being more like a wall. We absolutely need better and more substantial tutorials and other in-game info.
I agree with most of your post, but my point is, is that it doesn’t teach you how to do that, it teaches you mostly by trail and error, which some people can’t learn by.
First thank you for taking this post seriously, and for your thoughtful answer. The question is how can the game be made more accessible for new players (not experienced players) so we can have a larger player base, which is a good thing. I suppose I should have anticipated the usual status quo Luddite hostile push back. If grinding is the only way to learn, then the required knowledge becomes even more specialized. At that point, the existence of the game we love becomes at risk because fewer and fewer will play it, until it is no longer economically viable to exist. Then all the money, practice and years we dedicated fans have invested will be lost. We need more new players who are enthusiastic, not an ever shrinking minority of tribal knowledge specialists.
You realize this is the age of gaming where virtually every gamer knows that Wikis exist for everything? You can search google and it’ll come up. Searching Reddit for game information is probably the worst way to do it. Also, they haven’t included controls in booklets since like PS-2 era. If you don’t check the controls to see what is applicable and make adjustments then you must be brand new to computers, consoles, and games in general and you probably won’t like Warthunder’s steep learning curve anyway.
If only there was a place about the game where it explains everything about radars including keybinds that can be accessed in the game client at any time… Oh wait, it’s this: Airborne radars - War Thunder Wiki.
This isn’t a “skill issue” thing. I’m not brilliant, I just know how to seek out information. The wiki with all of the information is in the Help ? Box in the client. It isn’t in some secret location that you need a 20 digit alphanumeric password to access. The child comment was because apparently people need their hands held like the Naval shallow water warning that is so obnoxiously annoying that a child could do without it. This is information about the game is available in client, by Gaijin trusted people (Wiki Editors), that outlines virtually EVERYTHING about the game. You want all of these tutorials to be added when there is not really a point to add a radar tutorial because it’s already in the easily accessible wiki.
Why would they need a tutorial for CCIP? The system exists in air arcade from any reserve rank that carries bombs. It couldn’t be more simple. Place targeting reticule on target and drop bomb when appropriate.
The EEGS system that automatically works if you lock a target with your radar and get into gun range?
You’d never guess this, but it had it in the radar wiki pages too:
Radar gunsights
The indicator present when a radar gunsight is fitted
Radar gunsights are fitted to a number of aircraft in the game. If there is no real radar, these aircraft can be identified by the presence of the radar gunsight indicator (see image to the right). A radar gunsight is very similar to a regular gyroscopic gunsight, however whereas on a regular gunsight the pilot would have to manually dial in a range, radar gunsights use a small ranging radar to automatically input the range for the target the pilot is pointing his guns at.
In game radar gunsights will automatically adjust the aircraft’s gyroscopic gunsight in the cockpit view, making it more accurate. Modern planes also get a radar gunsight in 3rd person view for the locked target if you come close enough.
You can turn the radar gunsight on and off by pressing the “Lock radar target on” key. Often there is only a short range in which it will work like 200 - 500m distance.
I made sure to underline and bold where it mentions that system as well so you didn’t miss it. The fun thing is I didn’t even know what EEGS was when I quoted this and it took me around 5 minutes to find out what it was because of the acronym, and as soon as I found out I already knew that it existed because it automatically activates for planes that have it when you lock targets. The problem there is RB’s neat little spotting system that almost renders radars obsolete except for weapon guidance and people never keep targets locked for general combat.
you have to learn it by yourself. There is information out there, and if you are unwanting to look for it, I think then a komplex game like this isn’t for you.
Tutorials always can only do limited things, and especially for things like strategy and acm etc, there comes a point, where you have to learn outside of schools. Even the militaries know
Didn’t they massively improve the tutorials. Whenever you Research a weapon system there is now the option to have it explained to you.
Darn, guess I will have to trade in my PS2 then. Everything you say is true. Here’s the but … I have been playing the game since it became available on Xbox, about 5 years now. You, I know, are also a salty snail rider. Through our eyes all of your points are reasonable. However, I know for a fact, as a clan leader, that the majority of new Xbox players dump this game inside of 4 months for two reasons: 1) First and foremost the grind 2) Second the brick wall learning curve. It’s one thing to understand a concept in hindsight, quite another without prior knowledge.
The best Analogy to Jets is to treat them as if they were like Bi-Planes.
You turn enough you become a brick.
Do tell about how I am a salty snail rider, I’d love to hear about it. I’m always open to hearing criticism and if it can make me better at interacting in the forums or better in game then I am all for it. Honestly, I believe I have become much better overall in my forum interactions since I started in the forums, but I am always willing to improve.
Yes, I am aware the learning curve on Warthunder is quite steep. Noone brand new to a shooter does well before they know the powerful map locations, and Warthunders unforgiving damage (especially at low tiers with nuke APHE) makes this issue worse because you get wiped instantaneously when you make a mistake or don’t know how to properly defeat an enemy.
I didn’t ever claim that Warthunder was easy to learn, or that new players should “git gud” as you claimed I did. I also didn’t make any claims that Gaijin was some perfect game company either. All I’ve done is argued the point that information on the game is readily available and easy to access, and having a tutorial for something like radars, CCIP, or EEGS (which isn’t known because people don’t seem to keep targets locked in a close in fight) is just not needed. Radars especially because of how complicated they are, and Gaijin’s weapon tutorials are brutally simple, to they point they are arguable worse than the wiki to begin with. Reading the wiki is going to provide much more quality information than Gaijin could provide on radar use in a tutorial set up like the ones they have now.
even without improvements, War Thunder is constantly growing atm and making more money than ever.
Yes, there needs to be better tutorials, but with so many technologies and ACM being a thing, there is a huge skill component incolved, even militaries noticed after WW2, where they got WW2 aces into jets, bc they literally didn’t know how to do acm.
I think we should raise the average skill level, rather than lowering the skill required to have the “basics” down, which is the thing most people want by saying a game should be more accessible.
Like the approach for new players regarding KSP 2.
It arguebly was designed to be a harder game than KSP 1, but whereas most players for KSP1 had to watch Youtube videos from a physicist (Scott Manley), who played the game, and basically made those missing tutorials on how to dock and what ISP is (and why it is measured in seconds), what impacts the rocketequation has etc, while KSP2 was/is more accesible by having decent tutorials that give you the main points, while building a rocket to do things and flighing cette rocket is still a hard thing and requires lots of training.
The only good thing the grind does, is exposing you slowly to the mechanics, so you have smaller steps to learn things, and aren’t thrown into a high fidelity model like in DCS the second or even the first step, where you literally have all the mechanics available at the start, and have to basically make your own learning schedule.
Like the first thing I want to do is learn the radar, and then a radar guided missile, so I can do bvr combat, or I start with learning ACM/BFM while only using the gun and later include IR-missiles.
Or I start with learning how to do a cold start, and then SEAD/DEAD, bc of other things.
And the grind basically restricts you and gives you only a few things to learn at a time.
And that is the reason I am against newbies in an F5C or even F4S and alike, bc only the fewest are willing to learn all the mechanics and techniques incolved, and get themselfs even frustrated bc it is to much to learn, bc understandibly everyone else is esp in ACM way better.
So by having such permiums being available, esp with no good tutorials that teach what FOX 1,2,3 missiles even are, what advantages/disadvantages they have etc, Gaijin themselfs are giving even paying customers a bad time regarding accesibility.
kinda no. The thing mentioned is only that you can fire the weaponry using standard controls from a mechanical point of view.
It doesn’t teach you when and how to use them (the how is also what positioning, launch envalopes etc), or how they function. What manouvers work with laserguided bombs, and the advantages and disadvantages of them.
Those are quick and dirty mechanical tutorials, you barel can’t fail bc other controls are locked or heavily restricted, in an area you have no threats, no difficulties of spotting a target etc.
It is the first step of many, so it is an improvement, but youtube videos (like from Tims variety) together with an even lone custom battle are often times better (besides you need to actually look for information.
Yes, it improved the situation, but those aren’t tutorials that get you to a decent level of understanding and usability. They are just to get you the bare minimum of being able to fire them in perfect conditions in one gamemode.
I only partially agree.
Yes it is not needed, since especially with Youtube and some stuff like CCIP being intuative there is information in many forms available, but a good tutorial for those things would increase the average skill level, so we won’t have that many newbies in F4S’s that get clapped by any (maybe not even that competent) F5E player, bc they try to dogfight, bc they haven’t bothered to learn and now get so frustrated with ata, so they basically only basebomb and are cannon fodder.
I think it good easily accesible, maybe even partially forced tutorials (like being able to take off, before you are able to go into a sim battle), is wanted and would improve the average skill level, and lessen the frustration of new players, being dominated in newly bought high-ish tiered vehicles (not limited to planes, planes are just very good examples, esp since tank compat techniques aren’t that usable in War Thunder bc Gaijin decided to make it more like CS, instead of ARMA, even for SB) as opposed to air combat techniques).
yes, but the wiki for those things is external to the game, and I doubt that esp console players tab between the game and the Wiki on a browser. It’s an additional step that makes access to very valuable information harder and for the casual basically unobtainable.
Remember that mostly only the enthousiasts are regular on the forums (which also have an Academy section, but still having an additional one on a squadron discord is still appreciated, bc even for the few in squadrons, the forums apparently aren’t that known) and the casual wouldn’t go to War Thunder Live to look for training/testing missions, bc they barely know the existance of it, if even that.
Bc since this game is F2P (a double edged sword definitely), you have lots of casuals, that don’t go into War Thunder because they like Microsoft FS and now want to use their flight stick in air combat, but people that, like with wot, just want to have a few competitive rounds in tanks or whatever, without making a big investment in their time, which is needed to get to a decent skill level.
So it needs to be easier to access than it already is, to get casual players with less time investment better (which also improves their time with the game) and hopefully more players that go into the enthousiast direction
I think some don’t know how CAP/CAS call-outs work
Hi. While there may as well be some sort of lack of tutorials the game now offers you a test ride for almost all known guided weaponry and offers keybinds for things like seeker activation/ radar binds.
The ones constantly complaining about “hurr durr i know nothing game bad not give info” are the premium sh*tters that jump straight into top tier in their 70/80€ premiums.
I’m sorry but grinding is the way to go in this game, some can do it more, some less but just like im life a small investment can net you results over time.
Saying low tiers teach nothing is absolute heresy, a thing " top tier “”“”“”“enjoyers”“”“”“” will give you to cope with their crap kdr .
I mean, if you have the time to blame the devs you also have the brain capacity to also just google it, may increase your brain synapse count a little.
What would a tutorial do for a brand new player in an F-4S? If a player tries to dogfight an F-5E in an F-4, that is inexperience and cannot be corrected with a tutorial. Again, the way the game is designed with tech tree progression allows you to understand dogfighting basics long before you have a rank 7 plane.
It isn’t external, it is in the client.
The wiki has better information readily available than going to the forums. Perhaps information on how to be better or leverage a vehicle’s strengths would be good in the forums, but the wiki covers that for most vehicles anyways.
How can it be any easier than clicking a menu box and then clicking wiki?
It would teach them, that their plane has advantage and disadvantages compared to an F5. So the knowlege to decide stuff.
There is a difference between knowlege based decitions (if you are going into a calculated encounter, what weapon to use…) and learning intuitivity, which is experience.
Yes lots of knowlege isn’t written down, but it could be.
And even f2p players grinding to rank 7, still try to turnfigt at low energies in their P51, or constantly use flaps, which generally decreases your turnrate (except on rare planes).
ah, thought they only integrated the cards of the vehicles. Still it isn’t linked well enough imo, and things like horspower graphs etc are only a very rare thing.
I think it majorily just different. Since here you have people that can explain pros and cons better than a few bullet points ever will, and acces to other platforms and recommendations, whereas the wiki lacks links or even sources, while at least some here can provide links to stuff.
You mean clicking one button inside of alone 13 drop down menues at the top?
Yes it can be easier^^
Like link it with every stat card etc with every munition (while reworking the stat cards to begin with, bc they are borderline useless, and esp new players assume, that there aren’t).
Also those are mainly websites integrated into a basically web-viewer (like Steam and even AMD GPU-drivers have) in War Thunder.
There are loads of improvements possible (almost always), so “how can it be easier” is often a faulty question. Bc of course it can, and often it is just an engeneering tradeoff.
for ground or air?
