so HMS lion and H39 are both gonna be 8.7 when added why isnt USS south Dakota she is still 8.3?
Uss south dakota has 9 16inch guns with 30 second reload 761 mm of pen
HMS lion has 9 16 inch guns with 30 second reload 726mm off pen
H39 has 8 16inch guns with reload of 30 second reload as far as i can tell since its slower than bismarck and it has 771mm of pen
now im pretty sure the H39 has weaker armor than the USS southdakota not sure about the lion but its besides the point why is south dakota still so low its blantantly undertiered
why? what reason it doesn’t make sense to me
do you think they should review the USS south dakotas br ?
- yes
- no
- other explain below
just thought id bring this up since no one is mentioning it seems like a bit favoritism but im open to being proved wrong
Christ, where do I begin?
HMS Lion is by every metric [bad]. Everything she sees can go straight through her. 7.7s to 8.7s. Her armor is worthless. You would think a 38.1cm armor belt could be good. No. It isn’t. No amount of angling helps and losing both frontal shell rooms is common, meaning two thirds of your firepower is often gone in one salvo if you’re hit.
She also loses sections way too fast. You thought the A140s were bad? Hoo boy…
She struggles to do any damage to Iowas and Pr23s can actively ignore her. A140s are odd as at 10km bow on you can instantly mag det them but you otherwise don’t seem to do much (more testing needed).
Her being fast isn’t a big advantage either since Iowa’s faster and I’m almost certain also turns better too.
Lion’s only advantage is she never gets magazine detonated. An advantage that means nothing given no amount of angling will prevent her losing shellrooms in a single salvo, as I repeated a second time in this post.
i definitely think the dakota should be raised if the lion and H39 are gonna stay at that br cause dakotas really good
H39:
Armor to hit ammo, 8 guns on target:
620mm - 650mm hull.
365mm for ammo-empty turret mounts.
Speed: 56.3kph.
Turret traverse speeds:
6 horizontal.
5.4 vertical.
Turning speed: Not testable.
HMS Lion:
Armor to hit ammo, 9 guns on target:
~580mm.
Speed: 56.6kph.
Turret traverse speeds:
2 horizontal.
8 vertical.
Turning speed: Not testable.
South Dakota:
Armor to hit ammo, 9 guns on target: First hit protection:
550 - 630mm hull.
Speed: 50.5kph.
Turret traverse speeds:
4 horizontal.
12 vertical.
Turning speed: Not testable.
There are potentially other factors as well, but speed & turning speed are extremely important to ships.
& South Dakota is obviously inferior to USS Iowa.
So there is no discrepancy with supplied evidence at this time.
IN part because my data is incomplete, & your post didn’t provide any data.
Oh right, the ammo:
16 inch Mk8 APCBC [USA]: 404mm - 522mm at 15km.
446mm - 594mm at 10km.
18kg of filler.
406mm Spgr L/4.8 Kz: 398mm - 513mm at 15km.
448mm - 595mm at 10km.
26kg of filler.
16 inch Mark IIb APCBC: 386mm - 494mm at 15km.
430mm - 566mm at 10km.
25kg of filler.
The H39 is firing a superior round to the South Dakota.
according to your data south dakota still on par has more armor and pen than LION with less filler and its a better armor scheme all or nothing which at range is stronger than H39s with only a bit less filler doesnt make sense to leave it that low with a .3 br difference cause it has 5-6 KG of filler its 18Kg is more than enough H39 also has more pen close up but at a distance the south dakota over takes it in penetration a difference of 10mm of pen at close range
are its guns weaker than iowa yeah but so are H39s and LIONs
I can’t test South Dakota’s weird armor.
Armor & penetration isn’t the only things about ships.
Especially when H39 is looking obviously superior to South Dakota.
You are leaving out necessary factors for ship protection & offense not tied to penetration & armor.
Especially in a game mode about reducing crew count as well.
On Dover Strait, Des Moines is a superior ship to Texas.
At 15km, being shot at by a Gneisenau, a Des Moine is a superior ship to Texas.
There’s a lot of nuance, specific situations, & I forgot that H39’s round is 100 meters per second faster.
Ammo speed also is a factor that I forgot in my initial reply.
its similar to iowa same thickness tho its arrangements a bit different armors a big a factor in this as at range armor changes the farther the H39 or lion sails away from south dakota the stronger all or nothing is you have to be in very close proximity to pen it basically immune to ammo racks unless your a yamato or soyuz you need exetremely strong guns
while H39 on the other hand uses turtle back which is a old scheme as old as predreadnoughts is vulnerable to plunging fire very strong in close range
H39 also has her magazine above her shell room which if the turtle back is pentrated means instant death no matter how little ammo you run meanwhile dakota can survive multiple ammo racks as when you pen her youll reach her shell room first which can be made to have very little ammo
the peak pen difference between the H39 and south dakota is only at close range for the H39 does it do better past 10KM which in naval EC is common the south dakota starts to overtake it
Iowa vs Lion shells. Both are 8.7.
Spoiler: that explosive filler from Lion is worthless since the shells can’t actually do damage unless they penetrate. Which they generally won’t unless pretty damn close.
i added a poll cause not a lot of people are talking to see what people think
why is h39s belt so much shorter than Bismarck? I understand it’s slightly less thick by design but I can’t understand why they would make it half the size, it’s going to be useless
i would assume the angle of the turtle back when calculated compensates for it but i could be wrong its also steeper than bismarcks angle at 25 vs 22 degrees which at flat trajectory gives you 351mm for just the turtle back
also its armored decks are thicker so id say its a upgrade actually
