[Development] Testing out the Severe Damage mechanic

[EL_CONTRA]

You see, it is an issue with how the game defines a kill, if a plane has no chance of surviving, then it should instantly be a kill and it flying or falling down in flames it is just an animation…

but, interesting that you should mention the managing of ammo, someone that did 90% of the damage but ran out of ammo, the enemy plane is still flyable and escaping, and some team mate comes in and finishes it with one shot then who gets the kill?
Should the person that spent a gazillion bullets get something? definitely, but because of managing his resources could not or would not make the kill, then other team mate should get the kill.

[川口クルド防衛隊]

Not bad changes.

However, the current kill message can be confusing and should include text at the bottom of the screen, like the old hit and critical hit messages, indicating which damage or kill was done to the enemy.

[Master_Teaz]

if that comes for ground time to play SPAA to get these severe damage kills on heavy tanks (Falcon on Maus is what comes to my mind)

[xiaolei269]

Correction：not“shared damage”，it’s “sever damage”

[Master_Teaz]

now just how old is that screenshot?

[Master_Teaz]

if you do its silly, if you only pay like 50% of the repair cost thats fair, but would rather none

[川口クルド防衛隊]

2015

[Master_Teaz]

that screenshot is as far as ive been playing this game away from the genesis of warthunder

[Kanelikainalo-psn]

@OrsonES

Severe damage to helicopters is considered to be: tail separation (except for helicopters with coaxial rotors)

What is that then if not severe damage?

Don’t tell me we are still pretending that kamovs should be able to fly without the entire tail boom…

[Master_Teaz]

@Kanelikainalo

still pretending that kamovs should be able to fly without the entire tail boom

they likely can IRL but dont quote me on that, their tail is not mandatory for flight,

however effects would mean that they would be a lot less stable and that it would be nose heavy (RB controls doesnt really let us see this much)

though don’t quote me on that, its just speculation on my part, but it is theoretically possible, best hing gaijins done is not class it as a kill when taking a tail off of one of the bastards so we still focus them, though if i shoot down a heli im still peppering it for another 1-2 seconds with my SPAAs cannons to make sure it can’t reply

[Master_Teaz]

if that was still in the game now in high tier grb you would just see half your team vanish within the first 2 minuites

[Kanelikainalo-psn]

@Master_Teaz

they likely can IRL but dont quote me on that,

Extremely unlikely. It’s literally one 3rd of its entire fuselage lenght and there is no way they can balance all that lost weight with only the rotor pitch.

@Master_Teaz

their tail is not mandatory for flight,

Their tail CONTROL perhaps isn’t mandatory. The weight and balance definitely is.

@Master_Teaz

however effects would mean that they would be a lot less stable and that it would be nose heavy (

We have that one video of ka52 flying with only its horizontal stabilizer missing and it still jettisoned all of its weapons and flew very slowly.

[Rаm]

Stupid idea that nobody asked for (or wanted) that only benefits those who can’t aim. Way over complicates the game and will actually encourage even more passive gameplay to avoid taking damage. Imagine you lost an engine/wingtip and are RTB, only for the match to end before you make it to the AF thus counting as a death. Really?

[_WiKi]

Kind of unfair to be ejected for severe damage after the match is over

The player has already received 80% of the kill points, he does not receive the kill statistic, why should I receive the death statistic, and the total cost of the repair?

The damage wasn’t even very harmful, just a brown stabilizer

[thefoxiscunning-psn]

This is absolute nonsense and so poorly ideated.

Not only will games end with a bunch of slightly damaged players left (potentially on both sides at prop BRs due to ticket bleed) now ALL of those players are “dead”?

Neat.

[Master_Teaz]

@Kanelikainalo

We have that one video of ka52 flying with only its horizontal stabilizer missing and it still jettisoned all of its weapons and flew very slowly.

not arguing on any of you other points

but the Ka-52 could have likely flown faster if it wanted or with its ordinance, but i think the crew would like to have hte highest chance to make it back in one piece then push the helicopter that was critically damaged as it is still severe airframe damage, like an aircraft losing a part of its tail, with damage like that you just don’t push the aircraft beyond what you need to,

also not to mention that helicopters can really pitch up hard if they need to (you can see this by using sim controls with no SAS to see just how hard helicopters can pitch)

needing to remember a helicopter tilts by increasing and decreasing the pitch of the blades at it rotates to change the centre of lift relative to the centre of mass so yes the centre of mass will move massively forward but the centre of lift should be able to move forward enough to atleast counteract the weight of the tail, remembering all the truely heavy components (engines, fuel tanks) are still within the aircraft and that a fairly decent part of the tail section is still present, and with aircraft metals being so light the weight lost while not insignificant would likely still be within reason to think that the aircraft could compensate for the lost weight, as some aircraft can compensate for a lost wing with aileron input

[Bloodpörne]

The severe damage counts as kill message is too long and takes too much space on the screen. I’d revise it to say something less than 3 words or so

[revolver265]

Two big things, and a recommended testing change:

For severe damage, it’d be nice to know when you’ve entered this state for maximum clarity. A new message in red in the location of the “High Speed, Retract Flaps” or over speed, or in the location of “Hold [J] to leave” would be nice. We could even modify the ejection message, like “Severe damage, eject from the aircraft with [J] or attempt to continue flying” (I’m sure someone could hash that out better).

I don’t like the player being considered dead when the plane is written off at the end of the match. Sure, bill me a full repair, but if I stayed in the air, I’m not dead dead. End of story. Tacking on a death at match end is the kind of blanket change that causes angry players and edge cases.

Considering how serious we’re considering “severe” damage to be, a plane in this state (with no forward momentum, or a missing wing, or no elevators, etc) will often resolve itself. It either crashes quickly from missing important pieces, or it does not and through skill and determination, the player remains aloft. These things figure themselves out pretty fast.

When in the severe damage state, players will likely try to return home, and if the match ends whilst they are returning, a full-cost repair is acceptable but counting a death seems a bit too far.

Also, as one of the very first messages stated, Korean-war era jets tend to face this issue the most, where the wing sweep is low, thrust is high, and a second wing becomes somewhat optional if flown carefully. Powerful cannons can also cleanly cleave wings, control surfaces, etc. allowing this to be tested without the effects of damage spread over the entire aircraft. Please make super-props (similar reason, even lower wing sweep) and early jets available in this mode, where the flying-while-dead is most common.

At the end of the day, “Severe Damage” is a rework and redistribution of rewards to give credit to players earlier. Even when a player was considered “dead” in the current system, a pilotsnipe would still reward an assist. This game mechanic, in essence, renames that behavior to try to take kill-stealing out of the equation.

[revolver265]

Yikes. More evidence for why these shouldn’t be counted as deaths, it’s a widespread change that hasn’t seen many edge cases to refine the ruleset. That would have been, under the pre-activity system, at most 1K SL of damage. Now it totals your plane and puts a death on your card. Not pleasant.

I’m personally happy to take the damage but let’s not count people as dead at match’s end with this system. Great example.

[MokaMoki]

@revolver265

When in the severe damage state, players will likely try to return home, and if the match ends whilst they are returning, a full-cost repair is acceptable but counting a death seems a bit too far.

If you’re not “dead” dead, then you shouldn’t take on the full repair cost either though. At that point, you might as well as right it off as a total/full death then. This seems like it needs dynamic repair costs to be fully flushed out first before being added. For premium players, this isn’t so much a deal breaker because premium time covers repair costs. But if you’re someone who doesn’t have that, if the game isn’t officially registering you as dead, then why are you still getting a full death bill? That doesn’t seem right at all.