How is this hurting your kills per battle? Any plane you severely damaged is counted as a kill for you at battle’s end. So, again, how does getting a kill hurt your kills per battle?
It doesn’t.
If I just severly damage someone and someone finishes off, only “finishing off” counts towards kills per battle, at least that’s how it worked when people tested it.
It doesn’t help that real “severe damage” counts as “hit”, while superficial damage is counted as severe damage because reasons.
EDIT: unless Gaijin has fixed it, but I kinda doubt it.
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Just so I understand, you’re suggesting that even though Gaijin has said that a player will get credited for a kill of any aircraft they’ve severely damaged that ends up getting finished off by another player, Gaijin is actually not allowing that kill to be included in the math done to determine a player’s kill per battle result? That would seem like either a lot of work on Gaijin’s part to make that happen for no real reason, or a crazy oversight on their part. (And if it’s true, I would think the latter is the more likely explanation.)
I’m not really hung up on the kills per battle number, but I can appreciate how many folks are. It would be interesting to see any examples where this is happening. At the end of a battle I see that the +1 kill number (or however many you get) you see while the match is ongoing, ends up getting included in the overall kill count for the match results. As long as I see that, then I carry on. But if those kills aren’t really being counted as kills, then I’d also be curious to know more about the situation.
Please read for example my old post in this topic:
The person with severe damage only gets partial kill, that is counted for tasks and challenges, but is not counted in their service records.
In one of the official articles Gaijin even admit this change can lead to more kill steals than before. This matter was discussed so many times in this topic and a few other topics, I’m really bored of explaining all this again and again. So if you have more questions, just… read this topic. And yes, I know there are a lot of posts here, but you can try to use the search in the topic forum function.
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Well, 1 kill per plane shot down - lets call that consistency. There’s a reason it’s killstealers name is displayed in killfeed, and not your own.
I will probably test that today, but people have tested this before and while maybe it counts towards plane scorecard (which is useless anyway as AI/bots are crammed together and there’s no dostinction between air RB and ground RB) I highly doubt it counts towards KPB. Gaijin loves catering towards low life stat padders, you know.
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This is definitely a major issue with aircraft that are designed differently (twin-boom for example), made worse when the aircraft was modeled with one system in mind before being forced to another.
For example, the P-38 realistically has a very strong twin-tail, so very high amounts of damage must be done to it in order to destroy the tail. This is correctly modeled in-game, I have experienced this when flying so low that I momentarily tap the tail to the ground, at speed.
I would consider this boom as “no longer having structural support”.
However, because of the blanket effect of Severe Damage instead of the careful thoughts of “what lets this plane fly?”, we get instances where mild damage occurs and the pilot continues to fly, only to have a death counted; and other instances where any sane pilot IRL would bail and no death is counted - the player merely pays a small repair cost at the hangar.
In reality, the real issue of Severe Damage is forced ejection at the end of the match. If I have ruined a plane to the point of writing off at the end of the match, bill me a full repair cost as befitting a “written off” plane! Don’t kick me out of it, as though my pilot made the illogical move to eject from a plane still functional. Trust me, flying as far home as the broken plane will take you is significantly faster (at least, initially) than having to walk the entire way to base on foot.
What I think Gaijin misunderstands is that players do not like game mechanics that “intervene”. I stopped playing Arcade not because it wasn’t fun or that the grind was slower, but because I was forced to leave the plane in instances where I would have liked to continue fighting or was capable of returning home.
I was still flying - let me fly!
I have also commented on the bug-report website @_Poul and @Loofah have as well - Community Bug Reporting System
My sentiment is echoed here by forum users discussing in the original feedback/suggestions: [Development] Testing out the Severe Damage mechanic - #114 by _WiKi
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You were written off because of severe damage. All severe damage conditions can be found here:
Severe damage to a plane is considered to be: destruction of all engines (or destroying one engine if there is only one left), destruction of all elements of the control system (or the remaining controls left), which makes impossible to control the ailerons, elevators and rudders, separation of more than half of at least one wing, and destruction of all horizontal stabilizers (or the remainder of the horizontal stab).
[Development] Testing out the Severe Damage mechanic - News - War Thunder
Destruction of all elevators is already considered as severe damage. The problem is with horizontal stabilizers that aren’t affecting the plane performance (at least not much), but are counted as severe damage.
The whole written off mechanics makes sense, because the severe damage mechanics keeps planes alive for longer. If they didn’t kill severely damaged planes at the end of the battle, it would cause less kills than in the previous system, because players with completely broken planes just spinning in the air for minutes could survive, even if they should already be dead (their death is just delayed with the new severe damage mechanics that replaced most kill conditions).
Why a person, who caused this damage to me, shouldn’t be credited with a kill?
Spoiler
Just because the battle ended before I crashed, after spinning for a few minutes? I’m already dead in this situation. So it makes sense to credit a player who caused all this damage to me.
In the old system I would be literally dead already. I’m only alive on the screenshot because the new severe damage mechanics keeps me alive. That’s the problem caused by this new mechanics and the solution to this problem is the written off mechanics.
If the horizontal stabilizers wouldn’t be considered as severe damage, the mechanics would work most of the time correctly and wouldn’t kill you in the screenshots you shown. You were written off only because your damage (black horizontal stabilizers) are currently counted as severe damage.
During the test of the severe damage mechanics there were a few bugs like this one. This specific bug should already be fixed:
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Well, things aren’t looking good for us in regards to crits being fixed. Looks like 2 of the bug reports regarding crits have been closed as “not a bug”.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/2jZfQ6dK2Kni?comment=Epx0OU0AYywPfS1GqLsFQdqH
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/mYplf6Sip5Qe?comment=G4NvA70hJF28d3qF3Y5D9sfg
T says “Nothing has been changed in the critical damage mechanics.” But we know that this is not the case…
Interestingly it also appears that some of the comments I and others had made on the reports were removed. Is that standard practice for bug reports once they’re addressed?
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The comments are removed if break the rules or are off topic.
It doesn’t hurt your “kill count” so much as it lowers your payout overall. It’s kinda cool for doing kill/assist based tasks(not so much for crits now, that part’s all mucked up) so it’s kind of a double edged sword. I wouldn’t say it’s so much “moving the goal posts”, but it sure seems as if the shape of the playing field has been altered a good deal. I’m more concerned over the hit detection nerf that has come along with all this . . . it’s turned everything into an RNG mess really . . . kinda sad. Skill has basically been taken off the table now . .
What hit detection issue? I’ve had a round where I single-fired Shvak at Spitfire Mk Vc and each shot I aimed well connected and did damage.
Could you please elaborate?
It’s all over the place in Air AB. Granted a good deal of it might bit lag/latency differential between me and whoever I am shooting at. But it has definitely changed. And as I mentioned, this exact same thing occurred last year and I was not the only one that noticed it. We were basically doing some kind of testing then, and now it’s pretty easy to figure it was for this new mechanic. I can’t count the times each game where I have a guy dead to rights, square in my sights and firing away and nothing, no sparks, not hits, no nothing. It’s very common now. And it does go both ways, I have fired at a guy for a few moments, not hits registering and then KaBlooie! . . outta nowhere they just esplode. So it’s not ALL bad hits/no hits . . . but it is pretty plain to see it is more RNG than ever before. If you play RB, it may be different there, I dunno. But in AB . . . it’s a mess
Well, such things happen when the target is experiencing extreme lag and some pocket loss may be also onvolved on your side. It makes gunnery almost impossible.
The fact that nowadays once someone is severly damaged, which may mean “barely damaged at all”, shots don’t really register, unless you “kill” the aircraft, as in: rip its tail off or kill.the pilot.
Gaijon is doing nothing to fix the “severe damage” thta is not even noticeable (black horizontal stabilizer - it counts as severe damage even ic elevator is 100% functional)
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It may be the targets manauvering- most planes have enough manuverability that a direct rear shot wont be able to hit them if they jink around. Try to hit them when they are turning, its a lot easier to land shots then.
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I have almost 60,000 missions played in over 10 years here, vast majority in Air AB. It’s not a learning thing or “skill issue” it’s a strong change to the game and how it works. As I mentioned, this exact same thing occurred last year, and there are threads about critical hits not working going back to Feb. of this year. I have written off a portion of what I see to lag differential, game has always had that, not that big of a deal . . . usually. But what it going on now is a change to the game’s damage mechanics, it has to be intentional as it coincides directly with the implementation of the new Severe Damage mechanic. They have changed the game and how it works many times over the years, and I have adjusted/re-learned how to play . . not really a big deal. And I am still getting roughly the same kill counts and overall scoring is pretty close really, that’s not the issue really, for me anyway. It’s the nature of making the game more RNG & much less skilled based . . a fun or enjoyment nerf more than anything . . . oh and a frustration multiplier . . . big time . .
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Yeah, I realize it’s a new mechanic, might be a little “rough” around the edges, and I can live with that . . for the most part. Just the idea that you have no idea where to shoot, what will happen(if anything) . . just frustrating the main mode I like to play is being altered in such a way as to make it more or less pointless.
I just hope it is addressed in a timely manner
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Grammar.exe has crashed
Literally havent noticed any difference in damage lmao, just that I can break off once I severe them instead of having to loiter to kill them.
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They all pertained to the issue at hand. We were confirming that the issue was being experienced in multiple game modes and the timeline of when it was occurring.
Well, I still think the player that caused severe damage at the first place should be credited for a kill, not the one who finished it.
tbh It doesn’t feel really different from the pre-severe damage gameplay.
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Although i agree with a hell of your posts - imho you simply describe the usual way of gaijin - introducing new (and flawed) game mechanics without fixing already existing problems.
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The “written off” mechanic as part of the severe damage mechanic simply tries to fix the flaw of a the delayed kill detection / allocation without dealing with the core problem of the devs:
They are unable to follow a clear path: Either they offer a fictional and fantasy game play (and underlying mechanics) or they offer something related to realism.
An example:
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If i play 1 vs 1 vs the last enemy in a severe ticket disadvantage and i meet my personal Kryptonite (a Pe-8 at very high alt) i might manage to kill him (and win the match) but if he kills my engine in this process i will be “written off” despite i have enough altitude to glide back to my airfield.
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So killing my plane in this case is just a wet dream of gaijin (and fictional) whilst they try to offer realism (= B kill) without considering the fact that i would make it back to base.
Therefore it is nonsense.
Core issues:
I would guess i lost not more than 5-10 planes as a result of getting “written off” (mostly with dead engine), but i lost over the years hundreds of kills, the score & task progress due to wt classic:
A small hit on a plane (no crit & no severe damage) doing evasive maneuvers whilst you perform a high speed attack puts your target to flat spin. I would guess in years of playing wt less than 5 aircraft (i remember 2 190s) managed to recover after floating for several thousand meters downwards.
And the outcome of those flat spinning or simply going down aircraft has 3 outcomes:
- A team mate thinks it is a good idea to shot at those planes, despite he hasn’t disabled the enemy (so he has done nothing active and just benefits from your previous efforts)
- The plane crashes after several minutes and rewards u with a kill
- The plane crashes and rewards you just with the initial hit, sometimes the kill gets stolen by own af aaa and you might get an assist.
So the core problem of wt remains unchanged:
Gaijin is unable or unwilling to implement a system which is able to detect delayed kills. A damaged aircraft unable to make it back to base is a delayed kill - full stop. Same with aircraft in irrecoverable spins, death spirals or going down without wings.
If you manage to inflict an oil & water leak on a low Bf 109 20 km away from his airfield it simply doesn’t matter if some of your team mates finishes the guy - he was already dead.
The pure fact that some tankers or pilots got killed by “dead” planes is imho mainly a skill issue as they either lost situational awareness, assessed incoming threats wrong - or they relied on either the indicators “aircraft destroyed” or the “black” marker (=enemy dead).
So from a holistic pov the new mechanic just helps the guys with skill issues (so the tanker will not cease fire after “severe damage score” and the pilot will not see a black marker and comes to the wrong conclusions).
So imho this fellow player is on the right path with this:
The main issues as described above are simply not suited to reward decisive actions and just support players with the desire to benefit from efforts of others.