Defending the T58 (The T58 problem)

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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62

Fair enough. Why do I think it aged like milk? People rightfully pointed out the obvious issues and I can notice the bias behind your replies and original post.

Regarding the thread:

Everyone has their fair share of favorite vehicles, also me included but not at a point to play blind to the obvious issues that the vehicle—T58 heavy tank in this case—has caused during the first month after its introduction only recently having a proper and fair treatment (It’s a Premium vehicle after all, asking for Premium vehicles to have equal treatment to Tech tree vehicles is way too much for Gaijin apparently hence why they took so long to update 2S38’s modules and increase the battle rating).

I feel happy that T58 was introduced with, as far as I know, historical data (e.g. reload time from 3,5-seconds long in the DevServer to 2,6-seconds long in the release, although I think the ready-rack stowage is a bit unrealistic in my opinion). T58 has its issues but that would be in scenarios where it can’t shoot or move, which in my experiences I had not too much success in close quarters compared to long range combats if I don’t quickly engage the vehicle and make it impossible to response by firing back at me.

Because as I’ve mentioned T58 takes huge advantage over its historical accuracy (which in this case is a “It is what it is” situation, I disagree with technical nerfs, so battle rating change is the last resort) and map sizes, partially, by quick engagements, unexpected movements and clueless players gave this tank out-of-the-ordinary status and stats. Just because you perform below the average in the vehicle doesn’t mean it should not be nerfed in some way or another.

The “Just aim for weakspots” while showing the T58s’ weakspots covered is a very silly and poor argument to sugest as a “answer” to the issue, as better example, see the following image below:

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Also, bit off-topic, I don’t want to bring outside discussion but doing it: Advocate to the end of Russian bias but be biased yourself. War Thunder do have problematic vehicles but those same problematic vehicles isn’t entirely in the Soviet Union tech tree, that said I’ll agree that most of the Russian bias exist complains are a coping mechanism, and a bit because it’s Gaijin’s fault to not properly listen to the community and placing the BMPT and BMPT-72 in a proper battle rating (which they did, best later than never) and with a more realistic classification.

63

Well T20 has even better stats and by a lot and I would say it’s pretty balanced vehicle.

64

T20 has legacy stats workijng against it’s favour.
Hence why it’s 6.3 and ain’t too good for the BR.
Best indicator is the matches played

65

What legacy stats? Last month it had better stats than KV-220 or Object 279.

It’s more than adequate for its BR.

3rd most played rank 4 premium

66

It’s stats are artificially higher than they should be, it’s also not a tank which is used much by players who do not know how to use it.

Not really that good for the BR is what I said lol.

I’ve got the damn thing man

Then how come you literally never see them.
Ive lineups built around that BR man, 3rd most used rank 4 premium but where is it in the entire list.

Okay it’s the 3rd most played rank 4 premium, behind the T29 and the King tiger.
However, it is also around the fiftieth position on the April card alone.
If you also look at what I said, it’s predominantly used by the legacy players who have mastered it lol.
Much akin to how the King tiger KD is near 2.0 same as the T29

It’s nearly on the 3rd page for games played at rank 4, So let’s not try and misconstrue data or play with words.

The T20 is rockin barely 149 pen on its APHE and only 190 if i remember rightly on it’s AP shots.
Which would be fine, at 6.0 or 5.7, it’s 6.3 it’s uptiers are VS IS3s lol

EDIT: If you check it as well, for global all times stats, It comes in a whopping 78th in the entire roster, as well as I think 7th in lists of premium, beaten by T29, King tiger, RU251, T34-100, M46 tiger.

And only sporting 8 million games entirely.
Which compared to the TT counterparts like the shermans is telling.
Hell the Ru251 has 19million alone.

So yeah IF you would like to try use statistics to create a proper argument, use them correctly.

The T20 itself isn’t that good, the players using it are.

67

That I can agree with

The weakspot differences between the BMPT and T58 is totally different. Unless you have good HE filler, you cannot kill or even disable a BMPT in a hull down position, where as you can shoot the gun or around it on the t58.

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That was my original point. That following stats like some religious dogma like he was. Doesn’t portray the entire picture.

I do as well so what. It’s pretty solid medium/light hybrid for its BR with pretty good mobility, stab, ok gun and good reload.

I dont know I see them regularly.

I do as well what is your point.

Sorry for comparing it to its pears. I like sorry but if you want to compare it to TT vehicles that’s just wrong.

Ok and? It’s premium at rank 4. Obviously it won’t played as much as tech tree vehicles. Sla.16 Tiger is 29th there so what is not played either or what. Besides that over 100k battles is pretty good sample.

Thanks again for confirming my orginal point.

I am not the one comparing aples to oranges. If you want to get some relevant information maybe try to compare it to relevant vehicles.

Maybe try to learn aiming for the gun barrel with your superior gun handling or maybe even better and use your much better mobility and don’t engage heavies head on. I guess next will be that 76 jumbo is bad because it can’t pen tiger II’s turret face geez.

Globals dont mean much since vehicles and BR change over time. Honestly the only thing that it shows is that it’s being played more and more and the rest is being played less and less.

Which honestly doesnt make any sense because I checked every month recorded on stat shark and every month except march 2025 T20 had more battles played than ru 251.

I did you just apparently didn’t get my point.

It’s pretty good but so are the players playing it.

69

Seems like you did the same thing.

Exactly my point ,one of the few who have it, who know how it can/ should be used.
I’ve personally not used my that frequently in the last few years.

I’ve seen a smattering, I think 3 in the past 2.5 years.

that’s not just wrong at all lol You decied to compare it to two, extremely common rank 4 Heavy tanks which as we can see have substantially more battles than it does.

Also no, you cannot just say it’s the 3rd most used premium and call it a day, you can though compare it objectively with normal tanks of its BR.

100k battles is literally nothing in comparison to the volume of battles of the T29 or the Tiger 2, as well as that as I said about global stats, it has 8 million battles give or take while the T29 has over 30.5 million games and the tiger 2 30.1 million games.
That’s substantially more overall since just statsharks inception.

How is it confirming your original point? xD

says the man who just compared two super heavy tanks with a medium two tank which are

  • 1 far more used.
  • 2 completely different vehicles.
    You’ve compared two vehicle types, 3 vehicles as if it’s anywhere near a normal comparison.

No one’s said either, but the T20 is objectively over BR’d compared to it’s peers of similar perfomances.

Ah they don’t matter because things change like BRs.
Which it’s BR has increased 3 times since I got it lol.

Because the all time stats include 2024 as well?
Which is when statshark creeped up. Which is why overall it’s stats still hve holes.

YOu did not at all.

Just becuase players with tens of thousands of games make things seem good doesn’t mean they are.
I have a 2.0 KD in my merkavas yet they’re touted as being some of hte worst top tiers.

Same for the pershing folks rag on it constantly and it’s a solid 6.7 tank.

So what’s your point?

Bear in mind my whole point was that the T20 is boosted by legacy stats of players who are extremely experienced and hang around thoseBRs.

Which it is / does have and will continue to do so.

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there still people sustaining that t58 is not op, or we have improved?

71

We have in fact not improved.

72

daam i was hoping in an improvement, tnx good gaijing never lissen to the forum an balance by stat so in about 1 years it will be 9.0

1 Like
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By saying that vehicle with over 3.0 KD doesnt necessarily have to be overpowered?

I only used them to say it is not some rounding error and that vehicle is actualy being played and because it is better argument than saying “I just feel that way”.

That’s funny because I have seen more in a single day lately. And honestly that’s the reason I used the stats here because this is something that will vary from person to person.

Comparing it to TT counterparts is nonsense. At this ranks premiums are simply played a lot less. Just look at the copy paste premiums like tiger ost/west that deosnt even have quarter of battles of regular Tiger H1.

Ok I am not gona go any deeper into this. The point was to show that it is not some obscure vehicle like E-100 that no one plays anymore.

And when I think about it now the all time global stats seem to be for the entire time they have been in game not just since statsharks existence which makes them even less relevant in this case.

That the stats can be artificially inflated and they dont always show the reality and you should focus on actual vehicle capabilities first.

What? I am not comparing them to each other. I was just showing you that compared to TT vehicles they are far less played.

It’s not and I am not going to over this again since it’s not point of this topic.

Sure and in a year it somehow got almost 18 times more battles then it has since febuary 2025 up until now. No it is most likely taken from all player statcards since its addition.

That was literaly my point for that guy that he should not hang on the stats that much and should rather focus on actual capabilities of the vehicle.