Let me put it this way: It’s as much fun being the victim of spawnkilling and spawncamping, as it is being the victim of actual cheating.
If they suddenly started allowing aimbots and other cheats in the game, would you still say, “Whoo, this is fun!” when you get knocked out before you even had a chance to spawn? Yeah, that’s what it feels like to be spawncamped and/or spawnkilled.
It might not be considered cheating, but its’ effect on the player base is identical to that of actual cheating.
No it isn’t. There is usually a simple reason of why you are getting spawn killed. The reason people cheat is to have an actual advantage over normal people that they can’t do anything against.
No because cheats are cheating. Spawn killing is not cheating. There is a difference.
No it isn’t, not in the slightest bit.
I get you are angry about being spawn killed. My question to you is: Why did you let them get that position? It is blatantly obvious in AAB when someone is going for the because they are spotted the whole time. The solution is quite simple, climb to their height before/during their climb and kill them before they can get over your spawn.
First question, what model of Mig-29 and what model of F-4?
I was in an F-4E Phantom II, and as for what model of MiG-29 I don’t know. All I saw, all that was listed on the player statistics screen was “MiG-29”. (I’m going to assume base model.)
I was armed with a custom four-two-multiple loadout of four AIM-7 Sparrows of the Dogfight type, two AIM-9 Sidewinders and the rest bombs.
This happened twice tonight, by the way. One battle right after the other. Identical situations.
Ok let’s start with you first.
You are in an 11.0 multirole fighter loaded down with a virtually full Air to Air loadout AND bombs. I’m not sure how much fuel you take, but you are quite heavy to begin with before fuel so if you took a full tank you’re even worse. Luckily you have the Agile Eagle upgrade, but I doubt you tried to use combat flaps at all, not that it would matter a ton being so loaded down. You have mediocre yet workable SARH missiles with a workable radar if the enemy is at altitude.
Now your adversary.
Your adversary was in the Mig-29, a 12.0 air superiority fighter. He has a pulse doppler radar, so his radar is worlds better than yours and will ignore chaff. His missiles were radar guided R27Rs or more likely R27ERs, both better than your Aim7E(DF).
Now the situation.
You are in a 12.0 air arcade game where the physics are amplified in a way that makes everything (I’m assuming missiles too) faster and more agile than RB. The R27ER has a launch range of 100km and a lock range of 25km (don’tknow if Arcade changes this). I’m going to assume you both spawned within that 25km range of each other in the air at combat speed moving toward each other. He locked you with his pulse doppler radar, fired his missile that travels at mach 5.8 in RB (possibly faster in Arcade, not sure), and you tried to chaff it away which would have never worked, and you couldn’t maneuver hard enough in the absolute unit called the F-4E with the full Air to Air loadout, bombs, and possibly max fuel. You were going to do nothing in this situation regardless other than dive to the ground in hopes you could get some multipathing so save you, which is unlikely. Yes, you were screwed from the start. Welcome to a full uptier against the best SARH missile in Warthunder.
The problems with this is that Arcade’s airspawns are too close for SARH/ARH missiles to not be in strike range immediately, and you start at combat speed facing each other. He didn’t “spawn kill” you in the sense I originally though seeing another thread about Air Arcade spawn killing. He just outplayed you with his better weapons once you spawned. Welcome to a full uptier where you don’t stand much of a chance at counterattacking, exacerbated by the fact that you are unaware of what planes you could face at 11.0, and how to properly evade the weapons those planes carry.
The guy that killed you wasn’t being unsportmanlike or cheating you, he legitimately outplayed you with a better jet in normal circumstances of that game mode. It seems to be an oversight in the design of some of the Air Arcade maps, but with so many games played at 11.0 you should be experienced enough to know that may happen and how to avoid it.
I tried to find a replay to see what exactly happened in your cases, but I didn’t want to see the absolute chaos that Air Arcade is at that BR. You can plainly see on the maps with spawns close to each other that people get hammered by SARH missiles constantly. If you want to avoid this, you will probably have to shift to air RB because no map had spawns anywhere close to that and the closest thing to spawn killing you can get is Aim-54s at the beginning of a match. No SARH missile or ARH missile can reach spawn to spawn, especially not like in Arcade.
if in the middle of the game, you land on the airfield, it is not spawning anymore in ARB (spawn is when you appear for the first time). also in ARB, most of the time, if they are on your airfield it’s that the only play their still some target to kill to end the match.
Well, that explains a lot, thanks.
First off, whenever I play a normal game (as opposed to Assault), I always try to take bombs, because base bombing and close air support is what I’m best at. Hell, I got to first place just doing base bombing alone a bunch of times back when the F-4C first came out.
Also, whenever I take bombs (which is all the time) I also try to take along an air-to-air something as a defensive measure to avoid being a total sitting duck with only a gun against missiles either before or after dropping my other ordinance. Sadly, sometimes that doesn’t help like in the case of these two instances.
And most of my games played at that BR took place years ago, starting just after the F-4C was introduced. I quit playing just before the big boycott a couple of years ago and was waiting for the roadmap to get further along before returning to the game. This means my skills are a little rusty and there are a lot of new planes that I haven’t seen before as well, like that MiG-29.
I also didn’t even know how to use missiles at the time of the F-4C’s introduction, and still didn’t until the in-game tutorial for them was made. I’m still getting the hang of them, but I’ve quickly learned that I prefer the Sparrow over the Sidewinder for both attacking and self-defense.
So in your view there is no such thing as spawn camping in ARB at all…
My solution should be place aaa all over by spawn that can only shoot targets in the spawn area. They should also be able to reach anyone in the spawn zone regardless of height. Or give invincibilty to planes that just spawned in until it travels x amount of distance or until out of the spawn area zone.
With an amassed 1157 battles and with you maining a specific spar spangled nation, I have a considerable notion to assume you are not in the camp of ‘moderately skilled’ or anything remotely like it :)
Well, that specific star-spangled nation is my IRL nation of residence, so of course I’d main it.
Most of those 1157 battles were grinding my way up to where I am now, almost to top tier. Apart from premium account and a few premium vehicles, I didn’t spend a penny on any of this.
Most of my actual skill comes from outside the game, from a book written by a man named John Boyd.
Ehh, true. To be honest though, I’m more of what some people would call a “filthy casual”. If I could actually earn progress towards the things I want in PvE, my preferred game mode, I would.
Not sure what you mean by “glazer” though.
I’m a historian and a collector, albeit one who prefers to earn his way up the ranks and tiers the hard way rather than buying his way up even though I could.
I find playing these aircraft provides a deeper connection to their IRL history than merely buying them. I also have a personal connection to some of them, since my grandparents served in this era. (US Army, Vietnam and Korea.) Plus, I’ve seen some of the other aircraft (the F4U Corsair, for example) flying IRL.
because you can spawn only one time and their is more than 100km between each team spawn, in ARB (Air Realistic Battle), if you spawn in the same time than you mate (not after everyone is dead), it is physically impossible.
In ASB, Air Simulator Battle, sometime yes spawnkill append, but because there is no marker and no HUD, you can also, by accident, spawnkill your own team …
Arcade battle is for grinding low BR, after that their no more fun or utility to play in arcade battle, it is not designed for jet battle.
No, how can you spawn camp someone at their airfield when they too (usually) have to take off at their airfield? Even airspawns can’t get close enough to airfields before fighters can climb.
If you are trying to insinuate that kills on the forward airfield or primary airfield mid game due to rearm/refuel is spawn camping then your understanding of what a spawn is may be incorrect.
AB is actually where you definitely can make more SL than RB, and probably more RP for a researching new planes and to spade a lineup, for me RB is only viable if I want to spade a single plane a bit faster, though I have more fun at the dentist than in air RB…
Thank you for your service with helping to keep US plane battleratings low.
Hello again, old foe.
Not the first time we’ve faced each other on this particular field of battle, is it?
i’m just bored with it. it isn’t getting fixed, so deal with it. i used to complain about spawn camping too. live and learn i guess.
No, you didn’t complain about spawn camping. From what I remember, you were one of the biggest proponents (supporters) of spawncamping out there!
He actually complained a lot about spawn camping in the old forum before:
And I’m pretty sure I remember his name from the in game chat back then.
Then he probably started to understand why it happens and who’s really to blame. And he wasn’t the only one just from the names I see posting on that thread.
Spawn camping is a pain for all players on the receiving end and is not good warfighting spirit, especially if aircraft is a boom and zoom and works best if in a squad with comms. The answer is simple WarThunder developers need to move an airfield over spawn point and increase ground defence much like ground strike where you cant fly over airfield without getting serious damage or killed. As with tanks the answer is to lay down heavy artillery/flak to prevent encroachment, and to provide barriers to stop direct line of sight.