Well Gaijin ignored Eurojet and Eurofighter as sources so that checks out.
So all 3 of you @ron_23 @piiot @Farlexgamer_psn can’t see that even on the Dassault website you guys cited, it specifically states 7.5 tons which is not the same as 7,500 kgf?
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that is still not the number you said it should be
So you’re telling me that either snecma or dassault are wrong?
Because the conversions on both sites are quite different
That is correct. This is the number I said it should be.
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French companies have often understated values in their materials. It’s not the first time and won’t be the last time.
what is the ECO demostrator?
is it a hybrid to reduce CO2? /s
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Its the EV model, have to charge it
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Dassault’s website uses metric tons, which converts from 7.5t to 7500kg. You can see this from other values on the same page eg: 4.7t of fuel which is 4700 kg. It does not use long tons, (an old UK measurement) which you put in your calculator…
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also weird that he dosent use his weird converter for the 17k lbs in his source
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Fair enough, here’s a better source. Specifically states two things:
M88-2E4 is installed on Rafales
M88-2E4 has a thrust of 16,900 pounds.
Fixed link*
Key word here is “thrust class”, which is a marketing term that lets them round up the actual number without it being strictly untrue. Many engine manufacturers do this
is that the same engine as the one we have on the Rafale ingame?
Yes. IRL M88-2E4 has been used on Rafale C since F.2, we already have F.3R in game.
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Yes.
Regardless there’s a specific primary source figure that doesn’t say “class” where Snemca explicitly stated installed engine thrust of the Rafale is 73kn. Primary documents for the M88-2E4 hover between 16,900 pounds to 17,000 pounds. Even the lower figure of 16,900 pounds is not what Gaijin mistakenly claims. We have proof that the document Gaijin used for the M88 engine in-game was for a weaker engine.
Spoiler
On the page you have posted, the first row is labeled “Dry & AB thrust class”
And the second one says “17000 pound thrust class”
On the Dassault and Safran websites, the term “thrust class” is not used, and the accurate uninstalled thrust values are given.
There’s two engines in particular you should know about. There’s the M88 engine Etape 1 and Etape 2. Etape 1 used a thrust of 7,500kgf. This thrust curve is what was used by Gaijin. They have this source.
Etape 2 however came out with according to Snemca 2-15% more thrust throughout the thrust curve. 2%+ for static sea level although it is not known where the 15% more thrust is gained from, more specifically what altitude and what speed so this part is not going to be reported. This engine is what got installed into Rafales.
What Dassault and Safran websites say on many matters, like Mach 1.8 topspeed, doesn’t matter when what is more important is what the more detailed internal documents state.
so it dosent matter if you dont know any specifics
or do you want gaijin to just increase the thrust by 15% accross the board
I am aware of the two engines, SNECMA in the 80’s greatly overestimated the M88-2’s future performance, and after it was all said and done the engine was only capable of the same 73kN, as stated by both Safran and Dassault.
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The flight envelope for the M88 is Mach 2 and 750Kt, however that is not the limiting factor for the Rafale’s top speed. Vne is sometimes not engine limited, but airframe limited. There can be a multitude of reasons for this, like RAM coating melting, flutter, or so many others that would take years to list. The point is that its more complicated than cherry-picking the highest number you come across.
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