True, but right now we are talking about raw flight performance without considering external factors such as missiles.
and in this case the eurofighter absolutely mogs the rafale
I think such discussions are totally irrelevant because how often does it actually happen in-game or even IRL.
When you actually factor in things that are actually relevant in a fight. In a 1v1 (even basic things like the HMD IFF actually being modeled for if/when you are in a furball in SB) , the rafale is probably still winning every single fight vs anything.
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W for Realism
?? That’s a massive difference. It’s not more about taking that peak number away from it rather than reducing all the numbers below it.
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New change basically undoes the whole entire buff. Reverts FM turn performance to what it was prior to Christmas. Not really the case as you can see. The graph is comparing new rafale with the last variant before the buff
The initial report was still right about the underperformance of the Rafale seeing as they didn’t completely revert the nerf but instead just decreased the amount of the initial buff.
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as i said, it’s not the point of the conversation since we are talking about raw flight performance
We are talking about pure FM performances here, or there wouldn’t be any discussions on the FM change, since it could be considered irrelevant for the game
Same with the rafale, in 2-3 turns you can easily go from mach 1 to sub 300kph, at which speed the EFT just mugs the Rafale
Some FM changes with similar percentage differences have been refused in the past because they were not considered large enough. Personally I’m fine with the rafale FM change because I hoped it would make the EFT people stop complaining a bit, but looks like they are never happy
From memory the STR of the rafale was below 24 degrees per second
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A nice little AASM buff, got reduced down to 7m GPS error from 10m.
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Guys this is going waaaay off topic
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Little reminder.
Edit: Thx Aki
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Rafale’s thrust got distributed around a bit at sea level and 3,000m. Bit more thrust at lower speeds and bit less at medium speeds.
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Well lol i don’t see the nerf in all that as if you get more thrust at low speed you legit get more energy retention. Only drag changes are a nerf.
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Alternatively; use this thread, as this one (like all other performance discussion threads) are used to collect data
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Is this from a separate report or still tied to the STR changes?
I don’t recall any report that would be regarding these sources unless the developers revisited the thrust curve charts that they have.
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Gripen outrates it at altitude from the graph I believe, but it has worse 1 circle performance (Rafale radius is tighter) and the lower 2 lines show the gripen is inferior in performance
Rafale still has the ridiculous g pull which allows it to instantly get into the notch, so in most cases in actual matches this nerf will be little. In a duel, Rafale users will still be able to go into manual and gain a lot of position against most planes, but this nerf will at least allow it to be beaten in dogfights by eurobombers, f-2 and probably gripen.
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Speaking of, pretty sure the F-2 should be worse in dogfights than the F-16C, not better like it is atm. The increased lift doesnt actually equate to the increase in weight, so it actually has a higher wing loading than the F-16C. It also has a lower TWR, and should have higher drag. Not sure why gaijin modelled it to be better than the F-16C in all turn capabilities, instead of the opposite…
As for the Rafales high speed characteristics, its still a headscratcher to me. Afaik, just about everything about the Rafales design is optimized for low speed and transonic speeds, yet it somehow has the best high speed maneuvrability, high speed energy retention, and high speed acceleration, well above competitor aircrafts. Its one of, if not the only jet in-game that can rip its wings in level flight with stores and fuel at 11km alt, it can do it missing all its performance mods, and do it easily, while basicly all other top tier aircrafts struggle to keep up with a jet that has a theoretical top speed half a mach or more lower than themselves.
Its also still capable of surviving vastly higher G-loads than it should atm, and even sustaining G-loads that should be blowing its wings clear off using gaijins 1.5x safety factor (emergency G-load of 11g means a wing rip of 16.5g, max standard g-load of 9g means a wing rip of 13.5g, yet can easily clear 16.5g’s, and can be spiked above 20g’s with no adverse effect…), a bug report thats been accepted but has yet to be actually fixed.
Seeing as its been lied about so heavily for buffs already, it would not surprise me if more lies were found in the future and the current FM was a near total fantasy, atleast at supersonic speeds, where it outshines everyone else the most.
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Very realistic flightmodel. Nothing wrong with it surely: https://youtu.be/XRdiLmojEZM?si=ohKdvdnVucSDB79C&t=520
The FM on this thing is worse than a WT Live model when it comes to accuracy.
I don’t want to risk going off-topic as we can discuss this more in the F-2 thread, but I’ll just say let’s not ignore the flight computer upgrades, among other things, that the F-16C doesn’t have.
In addition, if anything, it underperforms at high speeds a little by compressing a bit too hard.
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Gripen has borderline the same sustained turn rate capability of the rafale while having also bleeding much less energy and slightly worse gain rates.
So if gripen plays more passive and tries to maintain energy the whole time, it will find a way to out-energy the rafale, get better position and eventually win.