Dassault Rafale - Variants, Characteristics, Armament and Performance

Going off of total statistics on performance is a terrible way to balance (they still do it anyway), its half the reason most of the absurd BR matchups in this game exist. Saying anything is over/underperforming based on the stats is going to be so skewed its not even worth considering worth any salt. Comparing first starter nations to second/third choice nations primarily played by experienced players like france/sweden/israel is flawed from the start.

And while I prefer RB and mainly play it, SIM basically is a great example of showing the flaws in every issue of war thunder because of its low playercount. Which is to say, Red team ussr/france/china/etc gets reamed by blue team for 10 patches straight who then go on to learn how to fight on uneven ground. Now that red team has received comparable tech to blue team you have everyone calling things like the rafale OP because theyve spent the past ten patches playing match 3 on their radar while red team has been screaming just to get to a merge.

As for inconsistencies and double standards, more valid. But seriously, everyone here knows there are no real standards, its a shotgun blast of balancing and implementation decisions. You’de be better off making sense and drawing reliable patterns from the stock market.

The Rafale is the second best in a dogfighter but the typhoon trumps it in all FM regards as of last I checked (in game). Both sit in this odd position to be nigh incontestable in a dogfight while being strong elsewhere. Meanwhile most kills happen in the first minutes of the match in BVR. Were it the kit the Rafale has that = its perf, the typhoon would be even higher in WR, yet it isn’t. Not saying top as the f15cs radar isn’t a RV microwave taped to the front. But the Rafal’s radar is not something amazing, it’s advanced features are still not modeled and in game its basically a f15 radar with a slightly faster scan and schizophrenic target updates.

This is to say, if you’re argument is the 8x MICAs + the Rafales FM is the sole reason its WR is so high all because its unmatched and no one else has anything to compete is wrong. Were this not true, the f15C, f14a, all with the ability to be incontestable in their meta would have had better WRs. The real determining factor in WR is playerbase skill * kit, there’s a reason everyone experienced stopped playing US and its become a joke, just like the german ground mains of the wehraboo era.

The current meta of typhoon>rafale>f15 is rather tight, the issue is that everyone else is left with nothing to compete, even 6x ARH is a pathetic loadout, especially so without 120s as an option. Everything should have 8x at this BR, even one short is a major handicap, Rafale or Gripen. And no one should be holding their breathe for any missle changes for the MICA given whats been said combined with statistics making the priority even lower.

If you’re genuine goal is to push documents and get realistic and documented in game features and changes, the sad notion everyone here is familiar with is that words get you nowhere, you need to be persistent and lucky.

That said, the snail loves their statistically driven balancing decisions, it’s your best bet, the Rafale isn’t a premium after all, no new players to drive down WR.

Overall performance between Typhoon and Rafale? Pick your poison, BVR king vs WVR king. Depends on your position, literally. Also EFT will favor those used to BVR in things like the f14 while rafale will cater closer to play styles the French playerbase have been used to.

TL;DR Rafale is not overperforming, playerbase bias. Snail double standards would imply they have standards. MICA will not get its buff, especially as long as French win rates are positive. Rafale and EFT are both currently great planes, but not only is the German playerbase more of a first nation choice, but lacks planes that play similar.

Yet another microblog

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Best jet is subjective based on personal experience. The only thing that’s undisputed is the fact that all 14.0s and some 13.7s are too good for their BRs and decompression is needed.

That’s off topic though so I’ll end it here.

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So as to better say my own point, the fact that the EFT/Rafale performance vs. is so divisive is best said that any objective difference is minimal to the point no one finds it egregious enough to fall out of team line. Meanwhile the options elsewhere are loud enough to show obvious issue. This is mainly my point.

Regardless of compression, I will stand by the idea that I believe after any feature/idea/mechanic goes live it should very-very-very rarely be removed outright. It alienates players who used it regardless of situation. Things should always have options added or changed slightly to fix balance. The only exceptions to things not being removed is when they are universally disliked, see Economy Nerfs, repair cost balancing, etc.

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Exactly. There should never be any big removal, especially after a decent portion of time has passed since its release. Thats why we have dev servers for testing.

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This argument would hold water if it wasnt for the fact the Rafale is (according to TS) the most played top tier jet in-game. You can say what you want about minor nations players being more skilled, etc… a 76% WR after 15k games is absurd.

If you wanna compare “minor” nation to minor nation, the Italian F-2000A (second highest WR at 70.42% iirc) only has 2k games played. Winrates tend to trend DOWN with more games played, as they tend towards the average. For the Rafale to be by FAR the highest winrate top tier jet in-game despite also having the most games played is an insane feat, and is a very strong indicator it is blatantly broken balance-wise.

F-2000A TS stats, Feb 1st:

If you want proof WR's trend down with more games played btw, here's a screenshot of Rafales TS stats on Jan 19th:

And heres one on Jan 14th (different format cuz cellphone screenshot):

Jan 14th: 6.8k games played, 80.02% WR
Jan 19th: 10.5k games played, 77.65% WR
Feb 1st: 15.6k games played, 76.28% WR

France didn’t get reamed in sim, France has consistently been a high performer in sim. REDFOR did get reamed, for multiple reasons (not just player count), and France could be on REDFOR’s side, but could equally as likely be on BLUFORs side. As for debating the merits of France in sim, afaik its generally considered that “whoever has the Rafales will win” in sim now. This isnt just because “les pilotes francais sont les meilleurs pilotes dans WT!!!”, its because the Rafale has some absolutely insane advantages in sim (HMD IFF and the single best radar in-game by miles to name a few big ones that arent relevant in RB). Minor nations do tend to have an advantage in skill, but if that was the only relevant feature of the Rafale being the top performer in WT, it wouldve held true for the M2K5F for example, and im pretty confident in saying it didnt.

WR’s arent everything in balance, but they are a pretty good leading indicator, particularly in the event of absolutely absurd winrate numbers like in this case.

Its a toss up FM-wise. Typhoon edges it out in 2c, Rafale wins the 1c. What the Rafale has that the Typhoon doesn’t tho is a much better gun (if you can hit your shots) and much MUCH better dogfighting missiles.


30% fuel, sea level for this graph.

  1. Never said the Rafales kit is perfect, it is inarguably the best kit in-game tho for air to air combat
  2. The Typhoon would have a better kit for BVR due to higher speeds and the AMRAAM if it wasnt for the fact that its radar is absolutely awful, making it unreliable in BVR vs more than 1 target.
  3. Most kills happen early games, but most games are won by the players that survive the initial widescale death of the fodder players on each teams ducking it out sub 20km, where the Rafale is king.
  4. As I stated above with the Italian EFT win rate example, player skill is not at all the only factor at play when considering Rafales absurd win rate.

Yes it is. The RBE2-AA has the largest scan volume of any radar in-game, coupled with a very high scan speed, and most notably has a feature that allows it to refresh the tracked TWS target every 0.1 second regardless of the targets position relative to the current radar beam. There are only 3 airborne radars that do that in-game atm, The Kfir C.10 blk60’s, the Su-34’s, and the Rafales. It effectively has all the advantages of an STT with all the advantages of TWS wrapped into one.

If you wanna compare scan volumes btw, which is largely irrelevant in RB, but a massive deal in sim, the RBE2-AA has, at its largest, a scan area of 70x31 deg. Next closest of the top tier jets is the Su-34’s 60x20 deg. The EFT sits at 60x8 or 140x4 and the F-15E sits at 60x5 or 30x10, with a key point to note being azimuth search volume is significantly less important than elevation volume, as the RWR will help you locate threats in azimuth, but wont really help in elevation.

Now obviously, radar search volume isn’t the only characteristic that makes for a good radar, but its the easiest and quickest example I have on hand to show that the RBE2-AA is in a class of its own in-game without getting into discussions of datamined info. The only thing its not a top performer in is gimbal limits, but even then, its effectively second best at ±70 deg, with the Chinese J-10A and Russian MiG-29SMT’s ± 85 deg being the outliers in that aspect.

That was never my argument. What I am saying though is that the whole package that is the Rafale is in a league of its own, and the numbers (atleast those available to us) support that. Obviously theres more to a planes success than its missiles and FM, but to discount its FM and missiles almost entirely is a bad joke.

As explained above, it VERY much is. You cant hide behind “minor nation, supreme galaxy brain player skill” as an excuse when you have THE most played top tier jet in-game with the highest win rate and when other nations that, by all standards should be performing better (small nation italy, much less games played, “equivalent” jet) are not.

I dont know why every nations mains do this whole “we are the greatest players in the history of the game, that’s why we win so much!” anytime something they have is blatantly busted, but turn around and point fingers at vehicles/sensors/weapons/etc… discrepancies to justify why they are losing when they are underperforming.

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APG-82 time?

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At the very least APG-63(V2) to give the US an AESA radar, but yeah the APG-82 is probably the actually comparable AESA to the Rafales RBE2-AA.

I still cant wrap my head around who at gaijin thought itd be a good idea to add an AESA to the Rafale and skip the earlier PESA which would have already been the best radar in-game.

We got the RBE2-AA on the Rafale before we even got the F-2 Viper Zero and its AESA (first combat jet to mount an AESA) lmao.

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in F-15C, but APG-63v3 would be prefeerable since v2 was much heavier (required counterweights) since it was one of the first operational AESA (in service 1 month after F-2)

as for what has APG-63v3, it is F-15C, F-15SG, F-15SA, and F-15SR

i really do hope we see the F-2 next update, it is such a neat airplane

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From an official Eurofighter presentation:
image

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When was this published?

That one is 1999

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This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Su-30MkI shoups go to Britain when they add it.
Britain has the Indian tech tree. Su-30 it is Indians premier combat aircraft and they operate a huge number of them.

As a French main you will receive an F-35 from the Dutch air force. Thats how sub trees work.

Rafale should have come with it’s PESA Radar.
Then it would have been balanced.

It has the best short/medium range missiles
The best Radar
The Best ground attack muntions for a none dedicated strike aircraft. Fnf is far superior to Brimstone laser guidance.
An amazing flight model
8 ARHM loadout.
IFF hud

Rafale having an AESA Radar just means Russia and USA will receive jet with AESA and watch the Rafale player count dwindle when that happens

Short, not medium. That’s the AIM-120A/B.

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Medium is within 15/20km. If we say long range is 40-50 km MICA on Rafale is lethal within that 15km

120 is too easy to defeat.
It doesnt pull the G off the rail the MICA does.
And the Rafale can sit in the notch with the HMD and the MICA amazing TVC.

The MICA is only good at 10+km when the target doesn’t manoeuvre or it dives on the target, and not pulling as well of the rail means absolutely nothing at those ranges.

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Same with the 120.
Everyone thinks the 120 is op its really easy to defeat

I have a small question, if a DGA document is not enough to prove values, what do you need? A classified manual? A letter from Dassault Aviation to certify the values?

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You said “PIRATE has never had a MWIR sensor”. I thought “I sure I’ve seen something saying it did at some point” and quickly pulled up an image I had kicking around, then got on with my life (believe it or not I do actually have better things to do than stare at this forum all day). I’m sure you would love for it to be some grand conspiracy, but I’m sorry to say I really didn’t put that much thought into it.

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