so for say, an F-15E/C, the IFF interrogator, radar, TEWS/RWR, and datalink would give it this same capability?
No, as far as I know the SB25A on the Rafale is the only IFF interrogator of its’ kind unless the F-22 or F-35 have something classified that we don’t know about;
And for anyone wondering it has come standard since F1 and has been upgraded since;
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what would stop US IFF transponders from being able to do this though? also, if you look at the IFF bullet point on the 2nd screenshot, it says IFF MK XII which is the same kind US aircraft have had since the 70’s, and was standardized by NATO in 2002 as MK XIIA
interestingly, it mentions electronic scan capability at the bottom
https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_pdf.cfm?DACH_RECNO=1408
here says that AESA F-15’s need the AESA IFF antenna, but the other PDF does say that its compatbile with M-scan radars
The APX-114 you mention is using the main radar for IFF it is not a similar system.
The only similar electronic-scanning systems are the upgraded Kuwaiti F-18’s that got the AN/APX-111 (V) upgraded IFF … in fact there is quite a lot of information on them. I do not know how many F-18’s or whose upgraded to this system over time.
The mkXII system is only the box containing the information such as the crypto necessary to determine the friends from the foe. It is not the interrogator or receivers themselves.
Compared to the Rafale, the F-18’s is a standalone system that is not integrated with the rest of the sensor suite and covers considerably less of the space around the plane.
edited in more sources showing F-15 has electronic scan IFF systems. it literally says it needs an AS-4664 electronic scan antenna
the BAE pdf on the APX-111 says its in use with USA F-18. also, why wouldnt it be able to integrate into HMD information, other systems have been integrated onto older airframes similarly to this? cant JHMCS display friend or foe?
some more proof of 114 ESA ability
Those are all separate interrogators necessary to incorporate electronic scan - they are not integrated into the same system as on the Rafale. They are also steered with the radar antenna / nose of the aircraft and do not provide the same situational awareness.
The AN/APX-111 (V) on the F-18’s are an all-in-one system like on the Rafale it seems, but lack the sensor fusion of the Rafale as I stated.
the AS-4664 antenna is seperate to the aircrafts main radar. please send proof that rafale can cover wider area with its IFF than the F-18 or 15. the APX-114, which is fully integrated to F-15, is able to fully integrate the AS-4664, and F-15’s as well as F-18’s have sensor fusion too, surely enough to display IFF info to the helmet.
I never said they couldn’t display IFF information on the helmet, I simply stated that it doesn’t have the same level of sensor fusion or coverage. The Rafale has a far larger number of integrated sensors and by that same nature - has more coverage.
fair enough. if they add TDL, then itll be able to see basically all friendlies. for now though, it should at least be able to see stuff in 120 degree in front of it
how many IFF transponders does Rafale have though? even if it can detect stuff from most angles, doesnt mean it can IFF it if it isnt within coverage of the transponder or transponders
As long as the stuff in front of it is returning interrogator requests - or has time to.
is this not automated? and how long does it even take?
I don’t know how long it would take, but it would require that every aircraft involved be sending and receiving signals back and forth to each other - requires direct line of sight and that both aircraft sensors are within gimbal limits, etc.
For the sake of gameplay you could simplify this greatly and just make aircraft within line of sight and looking at friendlies within 120 degree frontal sector pop up as friendly after a radar track has been provided… the Eurofighter for example requires an A/A track on something to determine it as friend or foe when utilizing the radar which isn’t required if you have electronic scanning capability.
ah, so the Rafale and an AS-4664 & APX-114 equipped F-15, as well as an APX-111 F-18, would all be able to go about typical operation while using their IFF’s?
Yes, no switch turning or careful maneuvering necessary. As long as a target is within line of sight it can find out friend or foe from one of a myriad of sensors available. The Rafale picks that up a notch and uses the sensors to quickly find and interrogate targets without needing to do as much scanning. The sensor fusion means everything talks to each other and it clears the picture up for the pilot rapidly.
Eurofighter needs to look at the target and build an A/A track to determine IFF using the main antenna, not sure what other systems it has but that’s my way of saying I couldn’t find anything else on it. Odd, since BAE systems is so quick to talk about any other IFF on the planet.
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im sure a newer F-15, with Legion pod for more sensor data and more recent software, could do this as well.
also, while reading through the APX-111 technical data on the PDF you sent, i noticed it said that it had 5 fuseagle ESA antennas which could mean greater FOV for IFF operation
same thing for the APX-126 on the F-16
also for BAE F-15 CIT
due to the variety of antenna options for the APX-114, and the same variety in antenna options for the other IFF systems, i think the APX-114 could very well have multiple antennas to give better coverage
Those systems are not integrated into the onboard systems and take away from the aircrafts RCS, payload capacity, performance, etc.
These are much newer systems, I was unaware they had electronic scanning capability. The system on the Rafale has been in use since the Rafale A demonstrator in 1986 though and I would not say that they had this capability in the 70s.
the rafale is really looking like a 2025s aircraft, and the eurofigher a 2000s aircraft (like its name) in the sensor fusion department
The Eurofighter was supposed to enter service in '98 and even then it would not have PESA, sensor fusion, etc. The IFF and MAWS in particular are totally legacy systems that are indicative of expected early 80s performance but has not been improved since.
The Rafale from the onset has had these modern systems.
APX-111 has had this capabiliity since it was made in late 80’s/early 90’s
APX-113 (similar to 111) is also on F-16C’s (126 better but still), as well as Korean and Singaporean F-15’s
rafale is a pretty impressive jet. wasn’t really the first to anything, but great overall multirole