https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/6dKurgoa95XA
I have a question for the CBR, why is this report suddenly accepted based on a clipping from a brochure and a couple of videos (which, according to Gaijin, are not the source)?. Why isn’t there the same reaction to the rest of the reports? Where did people even post documents and manual calculations?
It used to be when MiG-29 was first added that you could lock and fire R-27ER in IRST before it was removed after a month or so. But no one has the ability to fire ARHs with IR track and never had, iirc.
The Rafale should have that ability alongside the British Eurofighter and Russian aircrafts though, to fire ARHs with IRST lock.
The Rafale should be able to fire MICA and the future Meteor and MICA NGs by…
Using the IRST lock with angular multi-tracking at long range (100-130km)
Using the TV sensor with laser range-finder at medium range (40km)
Using the SPECTRA RWR which can triangulate the 3D position of targets at long range (250km)
Letting the IRST/TV sensor on rafale launch and direct missiles will definitely be a really big buff to the Rafale, hopefully it goes through before I finish grinding it.
And as hilarious as it’d be to use the RWR to launch MICAs at enemy missiles and aircraft… I feel like that’d be considered a super broken capability. But it would be very very funny.
Maybe it’s not super necessary now, but would be necessary with stealth jets that you can’t necessarily pick up with radar.
Although allowing the Rafale to fire at people who use their radars would give more importance to IRST-users such as British Eurofighters or Russian aircraft since they cannot be launched on if they don’t use their radars and opt for the IRST. Would create an interesting dynamic.
For anti-stealth SPECTRA cueing missiles will probably be fair enough, but right now it’d kinda just be “Oh you dare launch at me? Parry this MICA launched at you, and this second MICA launched at your missile.”
Which sounds very funny to use, but definitely not fun to play against.
To deal with L-O aircraft we really need datalink, AWACS/GCI and the ability to network radars that are capable of it.
I know you’re not exactly here in good faith but here you go anyway :
On the CBR every document is posted in a folder that only the mods and devs can access. This has been the case for a while for reasons you should understand.
All the testing parameters are given and the videos are linked in the report. I’m not sure why you’d want the Excel sheet for the frame-by-frame STR measurements, but you could easily redo it by downloading the video and read it with VLC for instance.
The initial report only included one document, which could be considered as a primary source from Dassault. It states a max STR of around 24 °/s without any other details. Note that this statement is purposefully vague for commercial reasons and concerns a very early version of the Rafale. 23.5-24 °/s is believable for an early Rafale on really low fuel.
The devs wanted other sources to work with. I therefore searched for other sources, which are all legit in their own right. The Aermacchi one is arguably more dubious since the full document isn’t known but it checks out with performance data points from other aircrafts.
Upon review of the HUD video, which is as close to a primary source as we can get, the dev concluded that a buff of around 0.5-0.7 °/s could be considered. I’m still waiting for it to happen though.
TLDR : don’t worry EFT fans, if the Rafale ever gets buffed because of this report, it will only be marginal. Your dear Tyffy will still be the king of gunfighters.
I would argue that implementing all of this would benefit the stealth jets much more than the non-stealth ones, as the stealth jets would not have to use their radars which would give away their positions and open them up to being triangulated by SPECTRA which would cue the IRST and the TV to look in a particular area.
How does this work please, does it require two sensors (and thereby different aircraft) obtaining a deviation or is it closer to the way PIRATE works at all ranges and uses kinematics?
Unironically I just want to see them both performing as well as possible.
I also have been thoroughly enjoying reading sources people have found to bug report stuff as well as the reports themselves, as it saves me from having to research it myself as I’m always curious about the performance of these jets.
In some cases, even if it doesn’t do what PIRATE does, (passive ranging), some IRSTs like the Russians, have built-in laser rangefinder for their IRSTs to judge range and position.
The Rafale does have IRST and a TV sensor with laser range-finder that can work together. But, the IRST is said to offer multi-target angular tracking independent of the TV sensor which contains laser range-finder, how it is done is not said however, we can only assume.
Angular tracking of multiple targets does not mean the Rafale’s IRST is capable of aquiring the range of the target, it simply means its capable of tracking the relative offset of azimuth and elevation of multiple targets relative to a set reference point.
Said reference point could be another sensors LOS which would be used to slew said sensor to the correct targsts position even when said sensor cant yet pick it up, like how the F-14’s TCS can irl slave the radar to its FOV, allowing the radar to continue illuminating a target it cannot lock for whatever reason. It could also be another objects position, which could be used to command guide a missile towards a target by ensuring the missile and targets positions have 0 angular offset.
Id say unless it has a known method of aquiring range to target passively, it would only be able to fire missiles in a quasi mad-dog mode, it MIGHT be able to then use the multi target angular tracking to then command guide the missile towards the target, but at that point the missiles kinematics would be significantly degraded as there’d be no way to calculate required lead and the missile would therefore need to be command guided in a pure pursuit fashion until it reaches a range where the onboard radar itself can guide the missile.
Not saying the Rafale’s IRST can’t passively range, just that jothing posted seems to indicate it can.
Id argue that unless additional sources prove the Rafales IRST does have passive ranging capabilities, it would be relegated to command guidance of missiles to target until the laser from the optoelectronic sensor can aquire a range, at which point it would be theoretically capable of switching the missiles guidance to lead the target.
Yes I see however I recall reading that the laser rangefinder is limited in range utility? I was mostly referring to its upper limits, or perhaps you simply lose some accuracy towards the ends of the bands as is expected of any system.
In sim i still find it kind of slow, sometimes i’m getting locked in front of me, and i don’t get any target displayed until i choose the most narrow scan
While IRST is tracking with Radar-IRST interaction enabled, N019 and N001 can periodically (every 5 seconds) measure range with ranging pulses. This is not passive, ofcourse, but is a longer reach method, compared to using a LRF.
Throwing things at the wall here:
What imaging capabilities and what spectral analysis (is this the term?) capbilities does OSF? If it has a decent number of channels and resolution, it might be able to predict the target by comparing the data to a threat library, which can then be used to estimate the range by factoring in the area of the image the target occupies and target’s true dimensions. Furthermore, the radar could be employed in LPI mode to range the target. Probability of intercept should be even lower that usual, thanks to known anglural coordinates and the lack of need of constant ranging (periodic suffices).
It should go without saying that the above possibility depends on a very wide (due to lack of knowledge on my part) margin of error, but if it does work, and if radar ranging can really be done undetected, itnwill be passive in function if not in name.
Though, such capabilities would not be openly talked about, I assume.
I made a report on it and so did direct if i’m not mistaken, they said to me that they’re aware of it for the rafale and for the r77, but that they currently didn’t want to add it. So yes both can and they know of it.
As for doing it in the past, you could but iirc it was a bug and not an intended feature.