As more modern systems are added across the board, the top of the line Rafale will have to go up in BR with added weaponry. And when holes will be created, devs will have the chance to add new rafales. Maybe a M instead of a C to spice things up. I think your mindset is wrong, and to be honest (and not being mean), a bit stupid. You can see how much work has been done on the Rafale. The evolution of the Mirage 2000s as top tier became more modern is also a proof that they keep implementing buffs at “older” airframes so that they keep being competitive. since the addition of the Mirage 2000C-S5, France has never been in a bad spot. They have even been dominant at times out of nowhere, for exemple when the 4 magic 2 combo was added, when IRCCM was implemented, when MICA was implemented…
Because you would have had earlier version which still carry subpar missiles and you would also be missing all of the avionics. It’s as simple as that. The eurofighter being the eurofighter they added, the F15E being a thing, it would not have made sense to add a F2.2
All Rafales were tested and compatible with the HMCS but France didn’t integrate them, so they’re all good additions. Game balance means more than reality and it always has (see 2000-5F)
so wrong on that,… you would have a new standard added with newer missiles such as Meteor (F.3R) and MICA NG (F.4) later on, when game ready
my entire intention with the Rafale was sim due to the crazy awareness you would have had with the scorpion on top of the RBE2-AA. it just kinda sucks
Frankly, it is a bit stupid to remove it given there are platforms that weren’t even trialed with what they ended up with.
I would save any major decision on which plane to grind and why until the patch actually drops.
Sweden is Sweden. France is France. I’m specifically talking about France Air tree, since we have a great track record since the arrival of the 2000 family. Have we been dominating top tier ? no. Have we always have a competitive top tier vehicle ? Mostly.
Plus, I don’t personnally think Sweden is in a bad spot either. The transition from Viggen to Gripen was a bit long lived, but the Gripen is still absolutely usable at top tier (after being an ungodly UFO for some time). Now, the gripen will sadly be stuck with a lower amount of missiles compared to other airframes, being a small single engine jet. But Sweden also has a subtree, Finland (and nordic countries in general), so they might get a bigger airframe in the future. Anyway, this is going off topic so I’ll stop here
no its ok though, the Rafale shouldnt have an HMD
At the same time, it is a serial 30-44 T2
Rafale saw many HMD trials of various types, even before F.4
as such, many vehicules with trialed things, have been implemented to the game.
It absolutely should what are you talking about?
Joy, an example of someone lacking familiarity with it and making assumptions. C is underperforming across the board to the point a half competently managed F15 could out dogfight it, which is an utter fiction. E could have come this update, and would have brought comparable agility to Rafale with a decent amount of hardpoints. The Swedish tree also consistently does not receive missing capability upon the capability being introduced, unless incredible fuss is made. Gripen C will not be usable in the face of Rafale, or EFT, as it is barely performative at present against anyone half intelligent.
I don’t particularly care to continue this debate, but your assumptions are ill founded, and I would recommend you read up on the topic. It demonstrates that unless an incredible fuss is made, they are happier to cater to major nations when new capability is introduced than fix minor nations, let alone introducing missing earlier platforms.
i can understand his PoV, If everything was the same in every TT,… but it’s not.
So, we would have had :
F2 : 6 missiles, MICA EM for now (since IR like most modern IR missiles will not come anytime soon), 2 magic 2s. No HMD. Barely any ground ordinance, against a eurofighter with 10 AAM, 18 brimstones, better FM, and a F15E, with similar air and ground load out
F3 : 6 missiles still. No Meteor for at least a few years because it would be absolutely busted (out of all the missiles left for France, it will probably be the last to come). Better ground armement (basically what we have now). Nerf to the avionics losing the IRST
F4.1 : Finally 8 missiles. Finally HMD. Can get 1000kg AASM
F4.2 : Get access to MICA NG
yeah, that’s great idea you got here. In a vacuum, F2 is nice. In the current top tier it would be stupid to add. Worse than even the gripen in many way except Radar and FM.
as many AASM as now,… simply not the Laser guided one:
-F.2-
- F.2.1 - (F.2 Early)
Added: OFS, MICA IR, Air-to-Ground and Air-to-Sea radar modes, SCALP-EG, MIDS/L16 and SNECMA M88-2E4 - F.2.2 - (F.2 Late)
Added: AASM-IIR, AASM-GPS, SPECTRA update - GBU support (buddy lasing required)
IRST is due to OSF, which is still present on most F.3’s:
-F.3-
- F.3 - (F.3 Early)
Added: Air-to-Surface radar mode, LAM for MICA, AM39, ASMP-A, AREOS Recco-NG pod (side note: no TGP)
Lacked: DDM and OFS - F.3 - (F.3 Late) **
DDM and OFS system re-added - F.3.2
Added: Gun A2G mode*, DAMOCLES (-NG) - GBU-12, GBU-22 - F.3.3
Added: Full LGB support - GBU-24 integrated - F.3-4+ - (F.3R / F.4 ready)
Added: Modernized SPECTRA system; MWS-NG, OFS-IT, DDM-NG, RBE2-AA plug & play - F.3R
(F.3-4+) Added: RBE2-AA, MBDA Meteor missile, TALIOS pod, AN/AAQ-33 Sniper compability, AM39 Block II Mod. 2, AASM-L, Mk.81 / 82 / 83 bombs, GBU-16
as the F.3 would be F.3R for SIGNIFICANT Change (as Gaijin always did).
IR AASM are very similar to PGMs as of now. That is, very short lock range (less than 8km on track mode for most ground vehicles), pretty slow, very visible, hence easily deflatable by most SPAA.
Not the best ground ordinance I could thing of, even considering current top tier.
that comment was made with heavy sarcasm
IR AASM are GPS guided, then Terminal phase is Auto-IR Aiming.
go read this:
“* INS/GPS IR: This Seeker adds an infrared imager for terminal guidance. With a simplified model of the scene around the target first being uploaded to the weapon, this imager allows the AASM to recalculate its trajectory during the last few seconds prior to impact, using image recognition algorithms. This allows AASM to hit its target with the highest possible accuracy, even if GPS coordinates are incorrect, or the GPS signal is unavailable.”
I’ll give you an excerpt of a report I made for the OSF :
The OSF (Optique Secteur Frontal) system was added to the F2 Rafale standard. Originally composed of the TV sensor (rectangular sensor), and the IRST sensor (ball sensor), the system was changed with the standard F3. According to this source : https://omnirole-rafale.com/avionique/optronique-secteur-frontal the IR sensor was removed and TV sensor replaced with the Rafale F3 in 2013. The appearance of this new system is confirmed by Dassault : https://www.dassault-aviation.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2015/02/Dossier-RAFALE_FR.pdf at page 14. The new system, OSF-IT only use the TV part of the system. Furthermore, for all known pictures, we can see that F3 standard feature a dummy IR ball sensor (https://archives.defense.gouv.fr/air/moyens/avions-de-chasse/rafale-f3-r.html as well as Picture 1) In picture 2, you can see for reference the OSF of a F2 standard in it’s turned of position. All pictures with this IR sensor not being a dummy are those of F2 standard, that can be identified due to using the older DDM sensor, with a flat black sensor on the top of the vertical stabiliser - see picture 3 - when F3+ use DDM-NG which is ball shaped - see Picture 4. The DDM-NG arrived at the same time as OSF-IT (see previous source from Dassault).
The standard F4 is receiving a new IRST system developed by Thales (L’IRST, la solution silencieuse pour une détection de haut vol | Thales Group). The new system is called OSF-IRST (Thales Defence on LinkedIn: Caroussel_100eme IRST_Thales.pdf | 12 comments).
In an article by Dassault Aviation, they claim that this IRST is a new system (Perspectives d'avenir du Rafale)
According to Bruno Clermont, Air advisor to the CEO of Dassault from 2014 to 2021, the IR sensor of the Rafale did not work until the arrival of the new IRST sensor. (Bruno Clermont on LinkedIn: Caroussel_100eme IRST_Thales.pdf)
This article also claim the return of the IR sensor (https://www.areion24.news/2020/06/02/rafale-le-standard-f4-se-devoile/), meaning that it was removed prior to the F4 introduction.
In this interview of an official about the capacities of the new F4 standard : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYnxnIF2tnE&t=226s , at 3:46, they mention the return of the IRST sensor used to passively track low visibility targets.
Named “Pictures” are added pictures for reference