only proof of 1 rafale shot down was ever found…
French side even Dassault has no data about what happened anyway sooooooo…
Hence “up to”. There are conflicting claims and proof of every lost airframe isn’t something I can reasonably expect.
If they had no data, why would they claim to have data? Try to avoid drawing a conclusion and choosing proof based off of it. You may also benefit from reading the image I posted.
The image you posted is stating that :
- Indian gov admit loosing a Rafale in a “non-combat” situation that does not involve enemy aircraft
- Dassault back-up this claim saying that SPECTRA did not record any hostile activity linked with this loss
The image you posted does not state that there was a SPECTRA failure, does not mention any combat engagement, does not mention a weapon used to shoot down the plane.
We know that one aircraft has been confirmed lost, and it has been stated by just about every source imaginable, admittedly ranging from very reliable to somewhat questionable (i’m not trusting PAF kill claims alone) that it was due to a PL-15.
We also know from that image that there was a claim that one aircraft was lost with no recording of hostile activity from SPECTRA.
Considering there is no other 100% confirmed loss, it can be reasonably concluded these losses are referring to the same airframe, no?
well, I did not see any reliable source saying it was a PL15. All the serious sources are mentioning this POSSIBILITY but no proof.
And even if it was true, if the narrative that the IAF and Dassault wants to push (DESPITE knowing that the jet was shot-down by a PL15) is that the loss was a non-combat loss, they could be lying about the SPECTRA and flight logs. They obviously won’t said “the plane was lost in a non-combat situation, but it’s true that SPECTRA recorded a missile coming at mach3 5km away from the plane”
All these are just narratives. no proof.
1 Like
Not sure if that highlight will go through, but i’ve highlighted “Combat loss”. It’s clear they’ve gone back on themselves with the whole “non-combat” claim. This doesn’t explicitly say PL-15 or explicitly a loss to enemy fire though in all fairness.
Thing is, Dassault also went back on the claim about SPECTRA having not detected anything.
but obviously as I said earlier:
Can I get the source because the source is not attributing the “combat loss” quote exactly to the French Air Force chief, you’re attributing it yourself, that’s how I read it. The French Air Force chief is saying 3 aircraft were lost, and it was a Rafale, Mirage, and a Sukhoi. The next sentence isn’t attributable to him.
2 Likes
May be the case. I’ve already long closed that tab if i’m being 100% honest.
1 Like
By the way, a US intelligence official had leaked to CNN on the day of the losses that one Rafale had been shot down. That is far more credible than the current Pakistani claims of 3 Rafales shot down.
It may be possible that the Pakistanis had fired at atleast 3 Rafales, and from their radar screen 3 had been impacted, two of the missiles fired at Rafales may have been properly jammed/decoyed but being relayed back as having impacted with the third one possibly having impacted. But of course everyone wants to focus on the one loss and ignore that in the proceeding days tactics had changed and no further losses had occurred from the Indian side but the Pakistanis did lose air defence units since then.
Further, the Indians now have doubled down and bought more Rafales highlighting that they did see success from the usage of Rafales.
Oh i’m not saying they weren’t successful, half the issue was that they got caught up in an aerial engagement while fitted with A/G ordinance. They absolutely did their job as fitted.
Wasn’t aware of this, but makes sense.
The 3rd one was a mig29 than a sukhoi
As for the PL15, while its most probable that if that rafale was actually shot down, it would be by that missile, since there’s no missile in PAF service with sufficient range to destroy the rafales from that far.
However, I believe the picture showing debris of the PL15 attributed to the rafale kill was actually found dozens of kilometers away for the rafale engine, which seems to imply’ that those are not connected. In fact, no debris other than the missile were found in the area as far as I remember. Maybe that PL15 was evaded and it self detonated or crashed ?
Anyway, we probably won’t have the truth for years, maybe even decades
On a different subject, quick question on the radar in game.
Do anyone else have the same issue as me ?
I’ve noticed recently that when I have a TWS lock on a plane and that they launch missiles (usually front aspect, directly flying to me) my radar will not only insta track the missile but also will forget about the enemy plane and will not reaquire it for like 5 to 10s, if not more. This looks like a mix of netcode + TWS+ taking several sweep other an aircraft to display it and the RBE2 AESA taking quite a long time to make a full search pattern making it very annoying in those situations
Yes, pretty annoying, it’s even worse if the enemy is literally dumping his entire loadout… Sometimes I struggle so much at finding the actual jet that I end up notching instead of shooting.
Noticed this on the Su-30 radar as well, other than Rafale.
Have had same issue with other radars. It appears TWS will prioritise the target approaching at a higher rate which will make you lose the jet almost instantly.
Yes, it’s something that regularly occurs, and I’m of the opinion that RBE2 is capable of discriminating by RCS so that what you’re soft locking can’t be decoyed by a missile which contains a different cross section.
Okay. I guess I notice it more with the rafale due to the pretty slow pattern update rate (radar does scan relatively fast but the volume is so large it’s actually pretty long in the end)
Well I would expect most modern radars (so everyone with TWS+) should be able to do just that.
Most annoying. Thing tho is that it not only start tracking the missile but also forgets the plane behind, which mean you are blind until TWS+ does it full sweep again