There would be no GAME. So the game is behind a shared paywall then. And now?
If you want to see it that way yes. But the point stands that while what you say is true, it can never be true for everyone.
Unless gajin starts handing out Gjinc for missions and so on. Otherwise you are always depoendant on someone else spending money.
For example. in WoWs you can earn Gold simply by logging in and a set amount is given if you play a certain amount of time. So 100% of the players can get Free premium time all year round by just playing the game. Ofc one can discuss the amount of time needed to play, but in WoWs case it was around 2h a day. WG also gave gold as rewards alongside Ranked,Clanwars and other solo ingame events together with other resources you could spend on a seperate, non premium shop, for event vehicles of the past.
So everything in WoWs could be 100% free (including every premium vehicle in the game) if you just played it regulary and did not bother spending your free gold on premium time.
This was also combinable with other “non-free” ways to get gold like Twitch containers for Amazon prime subscribors. (Again this is not really free as you are paying for prime)
But these are just examples of how a Free to Play game looks like if truely everything can be had without anyone spending a single Euro,Dollar or whatever else they pay in.
Ofc grind is important. if Gajin made that system as described you would need to play at least 10h a day for the same. But muh
If no one spends money, the game is finished and history. You can’t have a game that way, unless a third party is willing to pay the price to provide it for free. There is a shared paywall to all comercial games.
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Oh WG is doing quite fine finacially. Turns out players who enjoy the game and get a taste for what it has to offer also spend more money on said game and to not run away in 99% of cases.
You are again correct that the game needs money.
But again everything I said is factually true and has been implemented in WoWs years ago (almost 10years now) and the game has only increased in revenue ever since. So the system works even without force.
No, pay to win means … drumroll … what it literally says in the words your eyeballs are seeing
- Pay
- Win more due to paying
The end. Otherwise there would be more words in the acronym. The problem is it is simply unfair bullshit, and that applies to ANY advantage, temporary or permanent, exlcusive or not. It’s still unfair, it’s still bullshit. So people correctly mock it and disrespect it in all of the above cases.
Whenever you buy a modification, or a crew skill (the main two p2w things in this game), you win more often during the 10-200 or whatever battles that it would have taken to get everything and the ace for free. So you paid… to win.
Well, if we go by this narrow definition, crew skill isn’t p2w for most people, because they will not win more. But creating a squadron would likely be p2w. Not sure if that is really a helpful definition in this narrow sense.
How on earth is reloading faster, changing direction faster, slewing faster, rotating crew faster, repairing faster, seeing further, arty-ing faster, superhumanly absorbing machine gun bullets with gigachad abdominal muscles, etc. etc. “Not helping you win more”…?
Because in order to win more, you must also play2win. Unfortunately, many players fail to do that.
I honestly doubt that for quite a proportion of players, addding ace would actually improve their win rate. All it would do is change “you damn wallet warrior” to “you damn cheater”.
But yes, in the hands of a very skilled player with an already high win rate, it might slightly influence his already high win rate. That is why I would not like to see it in tournaments.
So by your definition, ace is pay 2 win for the winners and not pay 2 win for the clueless, like me in tanks. So I don’t think your definition is practical, because it requires the winning to actually occur. And this depends on other factors.
I’m just honestly confused. You seem to be acting as if non-super-good players just sit there all game and literally stare at a rock until the match ends, or something?
They are obviously trying to kill stuff. They are taking shots, they are driving around. A faster reload means they take MORE shots, for example. Even if you only hit 8% of your shots because you’re terrible, reloading 33% faster with a fully tricked out crew means you functionally act as if you now hit 12% of your shots.
12 > 8, so you’ll do better. I really don’t understand how you think you couldn’t do better (unless aforementioned “staring at rock”)
And no not “slightly”. I am a pretty skilled player, the difference between a green crew and a fullly leveled up keen vision and radio comms skill ALONE, even with nothing else, could very easily be the difference between like a 3 kill game in arcade ground where I main, to a 12 kill game.
No question, absolutely night and day. No crew skills = 500m radio radius, for example, upgraded = 1,000m radius, which is not double, it’s an area, so it’s FOUR TIMES more information about enemy locations from your allies’ vision than a green crew
One version, you have no idea wtf is going on and will not even know where the enemy are to shoot them or where to relocate to the fight. The other, you are an omniscient god of information. From just one single crew skill.
No keen vision can mean the tank isn’t even rendered on your screen until the other guy has already seen you 10 seconds ago, if he has full crew skill.
Reload speed taking the enemy tank from 7s down to 5s, while you’re at 6, means suddenly he gets 2 shots to your one, instead of the opposite. Basically 4x more likely to kill you from a bit of crew skill.
Etc.
If we talk about tanks, I am saying that many average players (like me) will not make winning more likely by having ace crews. Because winning the game is not the same as killing other clueless opponents. I may manage the later but I can’t really do the former reliably. So when it comes to tank ace, it wouldn’t be p2w for me, according to the definition you suggest because I wouldn’t win more.
If we talk about arcade air, it would be a different story. That I could play well enough to complete GE wagers on my own. I am not a combat ace there, but I knew how to win the matches. And I did grind ace crews to do that more effectively. And yes, I am pretty convinced that I was winning more matches due to ace, as the involved mechanism was clear. So in that case, your definition would be correct, provided I had spend money on it. (I wouldn’t have to spend money on it, because I would get ace quickly anyway for the vehicles needed because I played them well).
So your suggested definition has the reality check problem (with me at least). Either I don’t have to pay or I won’t win more. I just think it is a too simple definition, if you hinge it on actual wins.
I am not denying that. That is not my point. But if you look at stats, most people just don’t do 12 kill games (even in 150 crews). So you just illustrated what I try to say. Good players will profit, poor players won’t. And no matter what, the good player will win.
Imho, we need a better definition than yours.
Nothing would be P2W by that definition.
Hence why such definitions are usually only based in Theoretical Possibilities and not based on Player to Player basis.
So yea it is utterly irrelevant if the “general playerbase” would actually get an improvement in winrates. Otherwise you would need to gift ACE to all below average players (as it would not give them any advantage, in your opinion. And ban all above average players from using it, as they would be fully capable of exploiting it to gain significant advantages, by your definition.
Damn I did not even read that far when making the previous statement, so I just leave it in because I find it funny that we actually see things similar for once.
And because of “ace” only being really useful to those who could relatively quickly get it for free, I am personally not very concerned about it. When I get killed in a tank, it will hardly ever be due to ace, but my own limitations. And when I lose a game in a plane, where I could clearly have won with ace, I shrug and think “only 5 more matches”.
But all of that does not matter.
P2W is not about YOU feeling like it matters, but about if it could matter at all.
Even if noone would be using ACE crews it would still be a P2W mechanic.
So you not feeling impacted or feeling that it is relevant does not mater. It is about the principle behind the mechanic.
If someone masturbates in a public toilet while noone is arround it is still a crime, even if noone sees or hears of it. Is it a major problem? Probably not, but it is still a problem. Same goes for P2W mechanics.
So… driving faster isn’t helping you get to caps faster? How do you figure that? Doesn’t take any skill necessarily, you know you need caps, you simply drive to them and plenty of times you’ll get them, even if it’s just blind luck nobody shot you on the way. When you drive faster, you’ll do that more often. So you’ll win more often.
Your crew surviving bullets instead of dying isn’t helping you STAY on that cap longer while surviving to cap it? How do you figure that? Even if you are clueless where you’re getting shot from, the crew vitality will save you sometimes until some teammate pops the guy who was shooting you. And you win more, just by sitting there like a bump on a log not knowing what’s going on.
Your arty arriving much sooner isn’t helping you blow up enemies capping THEIR point more reliably? (With no skill, just clicking arty on a cap)
But if you look at stats, most people just don’t do 12 kill games
Yes, and people with 0.3 KDs because they couldn’t see any enemies to shoot at, will go up to like 0.8 KDs when they can see enemies to shoot at, at least. So they will win more.
That can come down to placing it better and actually putting it in a spot where you know they are going to go through.
That could easily be down to people being aware and looking about, more than a direct relation to aced crews.
There has to be a limit to what is obtainable without money, it has to be within reason and it really is not.
Getting ace crew for a top tier vehicle is around 1.1 million RP for starters, which puts you closer to 300 games already, and that is only possible after getting expert crew, which is another million SL and you need to get like a level 80 crew to even be able to unlock expert crew, which is like what, another 2.000.000 RP so we’re already looking at 4 million RP or well over a 1000 matches, which is hundreds of hours of gameplay.
And that is for a single vehicle, in a single slot, of a single nation.
All of the “ace” crews I have come from enjoying one plane enough that I play it that often, that ace happened.
(So far (I am still newbie) that is 3 planes: Fury Mk. II, Spitfire F Mk. IX and the Swedish B18B.)
That being said, it could be more, like the Ki-43-I:
Where my crew level is not high enough to keep track with the Ace-ing of the plane! :D
But that will happen eventually, so there.
And, needless to say, I did not spend a single GE on buying ace.
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Plane research =/= Tank research
Planes you are using one vehicle repeatedly for the entire match
Tank research you are playing a lineup of vehicles. Research provided for actions is also significantly reduced.
I’ve only aced one plane and that was a battle pass premium vehicle I used to grind my French air tree. I will likely ace the Mirage IIIE using it to grind out the Rank VII / VIII planes I am interested in.
This is 11 times the original cost to research the plane.
Sounds to me like you’ve raced up to top tier long before you’ve ready.
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