Ah nvm, you’re not interested in any actual debate. Just strawmen and being angry. Have a nice day!
Don’t project.
Not encouraged by game mechanics, maps and economy. End of statement.
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Too bad that to reach “enjoy game” stage you have to “grind only” for long periods of time or “invest money” to ease pain or remove it completely. I doubt there is something besides “grind only” in playing stock t80u for example.
Devs could shift focus from grinding to entertainment by at least removing module grind completely but thats harm to potential incomes so never happening unless game starts dying.
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You notice that this is a “you” statement? I enjoyed the game from the first mission I played. For “me”, there was no “grind only”.
But the debate is about quitters. If I play a game repeatedly and don’t enjoy it or feel pain, I don’t quit matches, I quit the game.
As I also enjoy role playing games, I am not even sure if I kinda like the module grind in a way, at least in air RB. You are expanding your abilities.
Didnt mean you specifically. Just player.
And you dont get your spaded t80u then.
The difference is that in rpg (like diablo 1) enemies are expanding their abilities like player, from lvl1 crook to lvl80 mafia boss. In war thunder case, you get thrown into cage filled with mafia bosses with spaded machines. And you cant just click “play vs stock only”.
We are drifting OT to a degree.
But I am a player.
In role playing games with an open world, you have to pick your opponents carefully. You don’t attack the palace guard as level 1. Same here. I didn’t buy a T80 and started there. Where I started, most players around me had about equal capabilities. And the modules came fast.
But back to the reason why people quit. The reason why people quit is the same for almost all quits:
Because they can! It has no consequence for them. So if I want less quitters (never mind why they would like to quit), I need to introduce consequences for quits.
No…i am not. II am generalizing and sorry if it sounded unfair…LOTS of other players actually admitted to what i said…perhaps not you, but it is rather common for players to admit to ODL and then present “reasons”. Bad map, bad team, bad uptier are usually the top three (not necessarily in this order).
We can discuss margins and numbers…but lots (not necessarily you) players will quit way too easily and then blame it on some game “issue”. I even had a discussion once with a player that said he left because his team had lots of players leaving after one death…and he didn’t see the irony!!!
This is a “team” game…even if the team is “random”, you should NOT leave the team so easily if you want the game to work. Play to the end and THEN you can complain! I complained lots of times…but i play losing games, bad maps and whatever…and have fun doing it!
Again, war thunder does not give you opportunity to not attack palace guards. Entirety of team is palace guards. You spawn with stock heat, no rangefinder, no thermals, no smoke, no repairs and play versus leopard 2 which not only is superior to your t80u in every way but also has all those modules unlocked. You just get seal clubbed by dart thrown from 1-2 km without any chance to strike back.
There is no dungeon level with weaker enemies where you can fight vs equal enemies like in rpg. You fight vs strongest enemies all the time.
Not only because players can but also because this way they achieve their target faster - reach certain vehicle or module. Even new free vehicles that were added to counter this are useless. Not only they are painful to play and inefficient because of stock state but also they dont have premium state and wont grind you a needed module on certain vehicle.
And outside of grind there are other reasons. Map design where you spawn on a dish and enemies spawnkill you like on big ardennes. Air domination where there is no reason to spawn because enemy air has decent position and strikes your team like hammer strikes nails. And other situations where there is no point to spawn.
I understand, but putting me as an example of that group is not a fair comparison. My entire point hinges on the bad design of the game, not necessarily just my feelings. I don’t think anyone enjoys being spawncamped, nevermind being spawncamped on a map that makes it near-impossible to fight back.
I agree with you! I play vehicles a lower BR in my lineup simply because I enjoy it, I play most maps until my SP runs out even if I don’t enjoy it. In fact the only maps I don’t like are maps that are more asymmetrical than other maps. Of course I understand some maps have asymmetry, but there’s a difference between a little disadvantage and making it easy for one team to snowball out of control.
The more posts I see the more I realize people take this game wayyyyyyyyyyy too seriously lol.
LOL, nope. Reason is simple, if I as a quitter I cannot quit then I will just try to rush and get killed until I can quit without penalty; or I just bring 1 vehicle instead of whole lineup, what it cause is the matches will become more worst to those who still in the game because the enemy will get enough point to spawn a plane or even a nuke.
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Lockout only happens when you leave the game before you have spawned available vehicles within 5 minutes of the match starting. It is a widely abused mechanic where people queue with only 1 vehicle and 1 plane to circumvent crew lockout - they play a match, die within 2 minutes, then leave and switch presets.
Forcing multiple ground vehicles would prevent this loophole.
Sorry, no! You spawn in a partially spaded reserve vehicle, UNLESS you decide to rob the palace. Everyone around you is new, except for a few higher levels which will soon become obvious. You can pen basically everything with reserves. That is how it starts. And that is where the fun and game is. If you jump down the tree (aka rush the palace), you may be in for an unpleasant surprise, not just in warthunder.
Because they can. They wouldn’t if they couldn’t. :-)
Having played the game for 13 years, I can tell you exactly WHY. Gaijin dumbed down RB to accommodate the short attention span of console players, which created a chain reaction of bad design decisions.
RB matches used to be extremely competitive because players were forced to adapt to cautious approach or die immediately and get nothing in return. The real problem started with lower the respawn cost so players could essentially play stupid and get more chances to continue playing stupid.
When this didn’t solve the problem, Gaijin added kill-based and time-based reward multipliers to encourage players to stick around. This didn’t solve the problem either, but was just more like treating the symptoms.
The habitual quitter mentality is this: rush in, hope I don’t die. if I do well very fast, I will stick around. If not, I will quit and just try again.
So rather than the game rewarding players who play smart, the game rewards players who will try to put in the time or reward those who want to keep rolling the dice and get a lucky good start.
The problem is Gaijin has trained the player base to think this way by making RB too much like Arcade and they will probably never try to fix it.
Spawn camping was extremely rare in the pre-console era of War Thunder because it was a stupid choice that would get you killed very quickly.
That’s an interesting point. I would take it a step further and say the “objectively negative experience” is at the very root of the game design.
WT ground game is, at base, built around the AVERAGE player dying repeatedly and bringing increasingly weaker vehicles into the match, to then be more easily killed again. And as a cornerstone to that your primary vehicles (tanks) have no defense against CAS, furthering the “objectively negative experience”.
So in short, I would agree with your observation, but I think it is much broader than you suggest. And accordingly, punishing people for what is intrinsically BAD game design is going to simply push them out the door, not better that game experience.
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This isen’t a loophole, you are not abusing anything, you are just only putting vehicles you plan on playing
And by saying that you explictly explain why people want to leave
If I know I will lose and just be a RP piniata for the enemy, i do not want to play
I am not an ai, i am a fully fletched out human being with feelings and emotion, i do not play the game to be a kill to another player
Im discussing higher tiers where one death leave thing is most common due to abundance of top tier premiums and stock grind being slow and painful.
Also starting point in module grind is moment you start grinding modules on certain vehicle, not start from reserves. So you start as stock t80u playing versus fully spaded leo2. Without a choice to play versus same stock dudes. Thats what I meant all this time.
Once gaijin removes stock modules grind people will be able to at least grind lineup and move to it instantly without having to grind modules on every vehicle (sometimes players may question themselves if its even worth it).
Another thing is premiums vehicles. They are currently sold as one vehicle, prem time, eagles. Selling premium lineups would help with solving one death leave issue because all lineup vehicles will have premium status and best modules (unlike free vehicles we have rn).
Only “would help” because as I said before, problem is complex and has many reasons.
For ground RB to be engaging the modes should be adjusted to allow for come backs, making the game more punishing just encourage people to leave early
It’s take irrealistic ammount of skill for someone to be able to turn the tide completly, last time I saw someone do it he had to pull 25 kill at 10.0 and still lost BECAUSE of teammate just respawning to die and draining tickets