This is a separate matter. There were separate reports on the Mosquito and Wildcat which are what will be introduced this update. They are not connected issues.
And many players want to see the French tree get French vehicles too.
The fact that France has only gotten two domestic ground (or quasi domestic with the EMBT) ground vehicles in a year is clearly a measly amount, you yourself have pointed out that ~4 domestic vehicles a year is about typical when referring to Britain, and that’s before counting subtree additions, so why is France getting half that?
The same could be said for premiums and squadron vehicles:
None of France’s squadron or top tier ground and air premiums are domestic designs. France is the only tree in that position.
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I hope dct is a Vietnam war themed tank, I’d pay actual money for that
And it very much will continue to see them in the future too. Many are within the plans and at various stages for future releases.
I was referring to the overall number of ground vehicles added to a nation over a period of time. The comparison was regarding the notion “Britain doesn’t receive anything domestic”, when its actually on an above average number. Other nations like France, Italy, Sweden and others have received much close to the average than Britain has. Which can vary from year to year depending on various elements.
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Very limited there tbh, most of it is already in game.
I mean there is a sheridan that had the rarden 30mm. but there isnt a photograph of it that shows what it looked like under some canvas…
cant add the M67 zippo as the main gun was replaced for the flamethrower and m113 battle taxis arent really gonna be much better
Another sheridan id like. I love the m551 in game, goated light tank, idk of any special ones tho
I don’t get this sentiment that “variant = functionally copy-paste”, its just not true. You can throw the label around if you want, doesn’t make it accurate. Thats like saying the Type 25 RCV (P) is just a copy-paste Type 24 ICV (P), because they share a turret and hull. They’re different vehicles with different 3D models. Not copy-paste.
^this isn’t an absolutely perfect comparison but its the first one that comes to mind
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yea and thats about where the C&P aspect of it ends. its a 35mm SPAA, its gonna be like all the others.
I agree its a rather underwhelming addition considering how bad these vehicles are for the health of the game but it is actually its own vehicle
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We’ve explained quite a few times why that is regarding higher rank premium packs.
All of Frances domestic MBTs at higher ranks are on the maximum current Battle Rating. Which is something we have said we would not be introducing premiums on. Experimental vehicles like the MSC are, based on past experiences, not suitable for premium packs when there are ongoing questions about armour protection packages and developments. Investigations into which or new information coming to light could lead to drastic changes to their protection and thus capabilities. So this level of volatility is simply not suited. Reliably consistent vehicles like the Leopard 2A4, the details of which are well established at this stage, are.
When the situations becomes such that a domestic MBT is possible within the BR ranges that are not top BR, then future options for a fully domestic MBT premium are always open to consideration. Much the same as the case with the F-16AM. Which as we have also said, the viable French domestic alternatives would be at a BR higher than all of the current premium jets already are. When this landscape changes, we already have considerations for a domestic option there too. Which we know will suit those asking for one well.
Both of the current options were introduced as options for those that wished to have / use them to utilise in the current landscape. As every major it was asked when France would get some Rank VII/VIII packs. It doesn’t mean either of them prevent future alternative options from appearing later.
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Literally they aren’t, we have the Sheridan and that’s essentially it
M551 (including the 76mm)
M163
M56
M50
That’s it
For the record the ACAV would absolutely be 4.0 minimum if it got its m40 rr
And no, the m48a1, m60, and m41a1 are not Vietnam era, m728 technically is but that’s a premium so it doesn’t count
The T-62M-1 is a variant of the T-62, but it is not functionally copy-paste because it has modifications that change its play-style and raise its BR.
The Leopard 2RI is a variant of the Leopard 2A4, but it is not functionally copy-paste because it has modifications that change its play-style and raise its BR.
The PRTL (assuming the base variant) is a variant of the Gepard, but is functionally copy-paste because it has no modifications that change its play-style and would be at the exact same BR, with the exact same strengths and weaknesses.
I think the problem here comes from 1. people overusing the term copy-paste (which I strongly agree is a problem), but also 2. people limiting the definition of copy-paste to literally copy-paste (e.g. Indian Osa). A new 3D model, while nice, does not mean a vehicle suddenly becomes meaningfully ‘unique’.
There is a spectrum of “copy-paste”, and it doesn’t help when people either classify all variants, no matter how different they are, as copy-paste, nor does it help when people don’t count anything as copy-paste, provided there are minor, inconsequential differences (e.g. a unique 3D model (but same exact play-style, like the Finnish Comet) or a different skin and decals (Indian Osa)).
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The main issue comes from the fact the statement makes no logical sense. You cannot “copy paste” gameplay. Variants of existing vehicles are naturally going to have the same / similar gameplay. Its more than possible to just say that, if that was even the point at all.
The vehicle itself is not a “copy paste”. It has a unique model from the existing Gerpards. Attaching the words “copy paste” seems to just be done on a whim these days as a means of expressing negativity towards a vehicle. Which can be done in far more constructive means and manors.
Simply slapping the “copy paste” label on something, which factually it isn’t, just leads to a further degradation in now that term will continue to be used as a blanket statement without any thought or reason behind it. Hence the earlier interjection and clarification.
Its more than fine to be critical of something, constructively. Its very hard to take something as serious when the “C&P” label is just slapped around without any actual meaning.
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I’m aware, it’s in this post here.
Namely three issues were identified as obstacles to French Top Tier Premiums being French:
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“To reiterate, we don’t want to add premium vehicles at the highest possible Battle Rating, so a premium at 12.0 for ground forces is not possible at the moment.”;
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“We previously mentioned the challenges of finding a suitable candidate that fits a populated Battle Rating with other vehicles possible in its lineup.”; and
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[Regarding prototype vehicles only] “The reason for this is that its armor protection is still under question, and we’re wary of adding a premium vehicle with armor that could very much be subject to heavy changes if new information came to light”
The issue is France had multiple alternatives that Address both those issues that could have been added instead, most notably the EPC series of Leclercs. This was a series of 6 produced starting in 1987. These tanks address all three of the issues the Dev Team communicated to the community:
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Produced prior to the introduction of OFL 120 F1, these tanks would have armor similar to the Leclerc S1, but the same ammunition of as the MSC, placing them between 11.0 and 12.7 (and likely closer to 11.3/11.7)
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There are 6, so one could be in the TT and one in the premium. That is in effect the same level of line up as the Leopard 2a4nl had at introduction (especially once the MSC was moved up in BR).
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Because all six protoypes were so similar, even if they moved up or down in BR, it would be as a group, ensuring there’s always a line up.
This is treating the French tree inconsistently with other trees though. The team could have treated French premiums like you did Both Sweden and Italy, as both of their first top tier premiums were light tanks (CV90105 and Centauro RGO). Given that you knew that the EBRC was on its way, a Belgian EBRC could easily give subtree representation, a French Design, and a guaranteed line up all at the same time without resorting to forcing another leopard onto players who want to grind France quickly.
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But then you’re just diluting the word and its meaning because you don’t have a have a better way to describe it. Is it meaningfully unique from a gameplay standpoint? No. Is it copy-paste? No. If it was literally just changing the radar model then it’d be understandable if people called it copy-paste because its the closest thing to it. But we’re talking about a new search radar on a different radar mount (meaning new animations for it and an extension of the back-wall of the turret) a different tracking radar, sideskirts, different smoke placement and capacity, along with it being a modification from another country. If it was one of these changes, I’d understand “copy-paste” labelling, but with so many small changes it sits in a spot where its not interestingly unique on its own and not copy-paste.
*that was weird, combined two drafts?
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Sadly many of these were explored. It came down to a combination of factors regarding information availability (or lack thereof), complications of the potential unknowns and the risks that could entail and providing a balanced experience in terms of a premium MBT that could have a sufficient line-up.
The Leopard 2A4 met these needs, basing itself around the 10.7 - 11.0 lineup of vehicles and meeting the requirements needed. Being a stable and suitable platform that could fit the gap, whilst domestic options were explored further in the future.
Once it becomes a realistic possibility, as mentioned already, a domestic option is also a consideration we have to introduce.
The primary requests coming in were for a Rank VII MBT pack for France. So this is what the team focused on providing. This wasn’t a matter of “inconsistent treatment”. Simply trying to address as many elements of feedback as we could. Of course there are always multiple opinions and perspectives on what people want to see and we don’t rule out more non MBT based vehicles being premiums for France at these ranks too. However the Leopard 2A4 was, in the context of the situation at the time, the candidate that fit all general requirements.
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With that guys, I’m afraid its now very late here. So apologies, but that will be all I can answer today.
Hope you all have a great weekend o7
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But if it took all this modeling to give France a new SPAA, and the gap has been known for ages, then why not add a French SPAA based on a French hull that’s in game that better bridges the gap in the French tree, because lord knows people have been asking for the gap to be addressed (and for more French designs) for ages
Surely a vehicles that will be at 8.3+ isn’t the best option
I’m not arguing that its the best addition, I’m arguing that slapping on a label of “copy-paste” on something that isn’t a copy-paste does nothing for your overall point. I generally agree with both you and @Mobius_Einherjar on the point that I would’ve loved to see other French AA and something else that’d fill the gap more effectively. I think that the PRTL is an interesting Dutch variant of the Gepard and I love to see it, and that isn’t exactly a rare nor a common sentiment. It is disappointing to not (as far as we know) see another AA that’d fill the gap more effectively, but as said by the developers before- additions like these don’t take the place of other additions. The PRTL fills a bit of this gap (again, not the most effective gap-filler), satisfies the BeNeLux community and its players while also not being copy-paste.
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subs before germany gets anything to substitute there crippled toptier line up the best line we have is 1 8.3 for 8.3 and 1 7.3 ? like why havent they added tirpitz yet ?
now with there new rule allowing multiple refits we should get GNIESNAU at 7.3 with its 11-inch guns too
literally 8.3 every country has 2-3 BBs why doesnt germany ? other than japan and russia but japan skips 8.3 to 8.7 and russia skips 8.3-8.0
but britain needs a half built BB before germany can get full line up or something ironically there was more work was completed on the SOYUZ than the LION
unlike germany britain has a 8.0 and 2 7.7s they can use after they use there vanguard
the last german air event is even the tornado marine, which was in 2022🙏
Fair