Breaking it down, there are *3 contenders for where this vehicle shows up:
Singapore: This is a Singaporean developed vehicle & thus if Singapore is added to the game as a subtree for a nation, this vehicle would follow.
USA: This vehicle was specifically developed to fulfill the US Mobile Protect Firepower program and was tested by the US, putting it in a similar position to the AGS & other past event US LTs.
France: Helped co-develop parts of an off-the shelf turret that was acquired through a subsidiary company.
Between the three, France is the weakest option with neither direct work on the specific vehicle nor testing / trials of said vehicle. Continuing to claim that France is the best fit makes no sense whatsoever.
The vehicle being a product of ST Kinetics fundamentally makes this a Singaporean vehicle, irrespective of any of its parts. The fact that the hull is an entirely indigenous design & it the vehicle has not been fielded by any additional external operators only further solidifies this fact.
As a general rule, Gaijin assigns vehicles to nations based on their hull ( with the minor exception with vehicles such as the Vickers Mk.7, where the program was British origin and fitting a British turret to an “off-the-shelf” hull ). In this case, the turret is the off-the-shelf product, making this vehicle most similar to something like the CV-90105 or Patria CT-CV 105HP; both of which went to Sweden, not France.
It doesn’t really make sense to die on this hill. France isn’t at all starved for options in general, with recent projects like the Belgian Leo 1 modernization offering virtually identical capability, coming from Belgium itself ( whom France now has as a subtree ).
The turret is notoriously built by France and Belgium (which is now a subtree in France’s tech tree), this vehicle should be added to France in my opinion
I’m pretty sure he got deleted because he was unhinged.
However he did make points.
And when he reformulated them in a more polite manner, you guys get so triggered you have to manually flag them.
Those posts are not deleted but community flagged, which is easily done by 2 or 3 people that can’t handle being corrected.
You might notice that we are a few following Bossman’s idea, and yet none of your comments are flagged. Seems like some are just more FairPlay and engaged in discussions.
Whatever…
Edit : as for his points being « misunderstandings », I’m pretty sure he is the one having corrected a lot of them.
He did point out several big mistakes of the original post, starting with the name and it’s history. So I’m more inclined to believe he might have a better grasp on the projects than you guys
While there was nothing proven wrong with the History or other “several big mistakes” (let alone sources submitted),…
… I already mentioned at the very beginning of the discussion that I would do some more research about the name (which I’ve done by now and will correct it).
Don’t take it personally. I just want to point out that, beside Bossman being very blunt (and I have been on the receiving hand too so i understand the feeling), he does make good points, and you (not in you specifically, but in the people disagreeing with Bossman), are rather quick to dismiss his points.
Frequently it is the hull/chassis of a vehicle that is the most important, rather than the weapons, from a development perspective. It is frequently adapted to suit a nation’s particular needs. Just think of how many M113 and MT-LB variants are out there.
Accordingly, ST Kinetics used their own (Singaporean) chassis to adapt an off-the-shelf turret to enter an American competition. Of the articles I’ve seen so far, France did not play a direct, active role in the specific turret design for the MPF.
It was a tripartite collaboration between an SAIC, ST, and CMI. CMI is of course Belgian, but it was the Singaporeans who modified the chassis to accommodate the Cockerill turret.
All CMI did was supply the turret. That’s it. According to the image you shared, all France did is having designed the PASEO sighting system, which itself is meant for export. It’s apparently going to be used on the M10 Booker, for example.
You may bring up the gun, but it’s still not French-designed. Only manufactured in France. Cockerill designed the gun, not France. Note how it says Cockerill 105 mm HP Gun.
The Cockerill 3105 turret is a product designed by CMI, a Belgian company, specifically with overseas customers in mind. Why? So that countries can rapidly produce a FSV/LT on a chassis of their choosing. We see this with the Indonesian/Turkish Kaplan MT / Harimau tank, and the Indian Zorawar. These tanks all use the Cockerill 3105, but on their own chassis. France had little to do with those either.
I get its a Cockerill Turret but its still on a Singaporean-designed vehicle (hull). It should go to Singapore, especially if Singapore is added to Japan.
