Cruisers do fine in an uptier though. My CA/CLs do wonders Vs BBs. Great fire rate keeps setting them on fire. take out guns. Ive sank many a BB.
Oh for sure, I’ve sunk my fair share of BBs in a cruiser as well. That doesn’t mean spawning a cruiser, when the other side has multiple 7.0 BBs looking for something to shoot, is a good move :)
SA, yes compression is an issue, but that’s a different topic altogether.
The more effective and reasonable play/complain would be to convince GJN to change how ticket bleed works.
Tie ticket bleed to a mix of capping and achieving a set number of kills for a total win. That would be a step in the right direction and be more useful then venting on the forums ^_^
Kills counting towards tickets is already bad as it is, I definitely wouldn’t want to see them have more weight. It’s immensely frustrating to save a match by capping an objective with a sliver of tickets remaining… only to lose despite holding more of them because the enemy team killed some random bot.
I’d much rather see kills not count towards tickets at all; they should be purely based on caps.
That said, WT should also change to the Battlefield style of ticket bleed: You have to have more than half of all objectives, not simply more than the enemy does. That is to say, holding one cap while two are neutral should not drain tickets. Caps also should not continue to neutralize if you leave before finishing, instead filling back up to enemy control (only until neutral of course).
This would solve a lot of issues, including making the “PT boat rush” (and “light tank rush”) less viable. They would still be incredibly valuable for capping overall, but not actually affect tickets in this specific case.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if that would be just Gaijin trying to copy some of the World of Warships mechanics.
But yea, I wouldn’t mind of the maps with cap points would be mostly removed from the game.
Also, the suggestion above, from @BleedingUranium is very good as well. I really, really like it, and it’s probably the easiest one to implement by Gaijin (call it a “lazy fix”, but it addresses a large chunk of the perceived problem)
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Sorry i miss understood. I will say calling in a Smol boy to cap points is the RIGHT and strategic thing to do to win the game but its also the boring option when a Cruiser could make Surface difference even if the Bbs are looking for food.
i will also agree Compression is a huge problem in naval as a hole. A PT boat going against destroyers is still dumb in my eyes since even in WW2 admirals (notably Halsey) disengaged them when they were deemed Unsuitable for actions against destroyers in WW2 and given more Patrol/Special Operations/Harassment of shipping lanes roles.
There’s no lack of team coordination, and there shouldn’t be. You are queuing with a bunch of randoms, each having their own goals and desires. Naval is chaotic with no sense of tactics, It’s essentially like airab. The issue is how coastal is implemented. The sole purpose of coastal in a blue water game is to cap points where blue water ships cannot (or have trouble reaching to that point) and nothing else. Maybe it’s useful in low to mid tier because coastal can reliably damage bluewater ships however, in top tier it’s a different story. Unless you’re doing a suicidal torpedo run, you are essentially playing your own little game.
What makes it worse is that cap point isn’t being constantly contested. I could die, spawn back in a coastal only to face no resistance, recapping and after leaving the area (because no one is there), only to have that point being captured by the enemy. No one wants to deal with that.
A good example is having a cap point placed 20km away from the main map in grb, where only wheeled vehicles and helicopters can cap. No one wants to play that.
If Coastal can do more than just capping points, I might reconsider, but as of right now, it’s only purpose in top tier bluewater games is to cap points.
There’s nothing wrong in calling out scummy tactics. This goes for heli rushing, spawn camping and etc. Just because you could do it, doesn’t mean you should. It’s unsportsmanlike
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So “unsportsmanlike” is to play by the rules and with everything the game provides you? I think you don’t understand the word lol
it is funny how people gonna write rants instead of accepting how the game works and learning the strats or simply choosing another game. It aplies to tank-only players, “PVE” sim players and well this topic.
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Are you going to critique the points I made or critique a minor misuse of a word.
You’re right, but you get intention of my statement. No one likes heli rushing because it forces someone to play as a spaa at the start of the game. To add insult to injury, there might’ve been no heli rush to begin with. So that player just spend 100 sp for nothing. I’m not saying to remove helicopters from the game, we can make small changes (increase sp, air limit, etc) to make the game more enjoyable
Accepting how the game works is saying that the game mode is perfect, it’s not. We should strive to make the game better. The type of attitude you have doesn’t make the game any better, it only makes it worse. I want more people playing this game, I want more people excited for the next ship, I want more players in the lobby than 3/4 of them being bots.
What I don’t want is some elitist group telling me and the rest of the playerbase that the game is completely fine and that we should accept the state of the game.
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Right, but the OP has been saying the former, while others of us actually discussed the latter immediately above here.
In short, changing ticket bleed so that only holding “more than half” (two) bleeds instead of “more than enemy” (potentially one with two neutral) would go a long way to reduce the effect of early-match PT boat / floatplane cap rushing, while otherwise keeping their useful and fun role intact in most normal situations.
Removing caps self-neutralizing if so much as touched (would fill back up to currently-held until actually neutralized, if player leaves/dies) would also help as one could potentially react quickly enough to the start of a decap to one-tap a PT/plane before it can neutralize, something that (basically) won’t happen vs a larger ship.
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I mean half the problem is the game arbitrarily decides you can’t see PT boats at more than 5km. Not that it matters because if it’s manouevring you need to be an excellent shot or just really good.
It’d be a start though.
I can see both sides of the argument (OP’s and yours) however, what we both can agree on is that the current state of naval is not it and changes need to be done to make the mode enjoyable. The issue I have with Nomad is his determination to say that the game is fine and it is the playerbase’s fault (those who disagree with him) to not adjust to the game.
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I mean, nothing is perfect and improvements are always welcome, but I cannot agree with that phrasing; Naval RB is quite solid and topics like this are more so polishing up the edges.
If we can get a few other things like target lock being possible through islands, and overbearing AI gunners sorted, there wouldn’t be much else of note to fix.
I disagree. There’s a reason why Naval is always looked over for different game modes. From small naval content creators to barely any comments on devblogs, there is no appetite for naval. This isn’t because people are not interested in ships, it’s quite the opposite. A lot of players like all aspects of vehicular combat (in real life), they just don’t like how it’s implemented in the game. I have a whole lot of ideas but we as a whole need to come out with a list of requirements to make Naval good.
Fortunately 2/3 of the game I have are usually a single points or multiple points (with open spaces) so pt boats aren’t much of an issue. But for the 1/3, it’s quite annoying. I do somewhat agree with OP that PT boats need to be removed from top tier bluewater (with how they are currently implemented). Their only purpose is to cap points and nothing else. This wouldn’t be as bad if you can use bluewater ships to research coastal.
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Indeed. Specially this:
If maps were adecuately designed for combined combat, it would be fine if PT boats and BBs shared them; each playing their equally relevant respective roles.
My issue comes when an entire match can be decided by a single PT boat only capping and doing nothing more, finishing the match via ticket bleed before BBs can reach the only point available to themselves unless someone dies/J-s out and forcefully spawns another PT boat to cap the PT-exclusive zones.
Also this. I would gladly spawn frigates, but I am not willing to go through hundreds of thousands worth of grind with torpedo boats.
This would definitely be welcome. If tanks can research helicopters (not… planes researching helis?) then big boats should absolutely be able to research small boats.
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Those are coastal maps, it’s bluewater fleet that shouldnt be there not the coastals
It’s like only few people in game can use PT-boat in their lineups
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So I spawn in a battleship. With the intention of playing said battleship. I then see an enemy PT boat capping all the cap points. I then have to J out of my battleship, respawn in a PT boat, go counter cap all the points, then die, only for someone else on the other team to have recapped them all?
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This map is battleship slaughterhouse, you wouldn’t cap A even with destroyers dosabled.
I don’t know if you noticed but 3 cap point maps are so small that playing battleships on them is almost suicidal. 10-12 km is point blank range for guns heavier than 6". Not to mention that getting to some cap points is almost imposible for battleships. So I use PT-boats first, win the battle and hope for better map next time