Part of that is the 900 being an amazing 2nd spawn for the UK9.0 line up, buuut the play style of the Mk10 (the likely first spawn) isnt one where you die a lot, given it’s a textbook second line support sort of tank
This is a completely different topic.
im talking about the Planned BR changes, and since the OG thread about them has been locked, i wanted to voice my concerns about the Chieftains being moved up for no reason.
I genuinely think moving the Mk10, and 900 up to 9.3 is a huge mistake.
They are some of the most well balanced vehicles in the game. They can do good in good hands, But they aren’t massively overpowered, they are balanced out by their Mobility and slow reloads. Along with their sub par optics.
plus by moving them up you will be killing one of the best Lineups in the UK Tree.
I think t72a is just too good. Got the leopard 120 last sale recently and even though protection analysis mostly shows it can it frequently can’t shoot through t72s upper armor, and im pretty sure it’s one of the highest pens at this rating.
Im not a tanks expert but fact that almost everything at this rating is easily penetrated everywhere but t72 you have to aim quite specifically to kill it is a little stupid. Reached 11.7 using Khalid too and t72 was always problematic for me
Besides, the Chieftain Mk10 works great at 9.0 as a Counter of the AM model T-55 and T-62. Without the Chieftain there as a balancing factor, as a vehicle that can keep them in check, they are just going to run rampant in 8.0 down tiers.
I mean are you really trying to imply that a early 1960s MBT, upgraded as a Stop Gap just to fill the gap until the MBT-80, and then the Challenger was ready, IS BETTER, than the Object 279? or the TTS M60s that reload faster, get near identical performing rounds, and better sights? I get the M60s don’t have composite armor, But they also have a mantlet that is 80% of their turret front, and is basically a black hole.
they arent too slow to do anything. they force you to learn how to position
as if thats bad
skill issue. L15a3 can be used at 10.0 easily still
bro cant upper plate a tank that dies to DM23 with a shell thats still decent at 10.7
the chieftain mk10 and 900 should NOT go up but good lord make a good argument instead of a skill cope argument.
Khalid is a better chieftain 900 as its mobility rivals the leopard 1. Scratch that, its the british peer to the Leopard 1a5 but heavier. Its almost balanced perfectly at 9.3 with the 1a5, MBT70, T-64A, AMX 32. Its nonsensical to have the mk10s slow ass and a literal khalid but half the mobility at teh same BR as it
all the chieftains are in desperate need of a faster reload to actually be on a level playing field (a chieftain probably should be pusing 5.5 seconds on ace crew but seeing as gaijin thinks a L7 105 takes 6.7 seconds to reload it should take the same time (three piece ammo is easier on the loader)
The mk10 and 900 are played by british mains that know their tanks well. moving them up to where they are unviable (ground at that BR is extremely quick for things to move from OP to balanced to trash) just punishes players for being decent with a well rounded vehicle.
Dont balance based on the player, balance based on the actual tools available to the player
3 Likes
Thank you. That is what ive been trying to say, just not well at all.
Turny and Ewok did some good rants about it on YT, ill link them as while some of their points (more so Turny’s) are a little misguided in my opinion, they are bang on with the concerns.
some further points on the 900 as its the worse of the two
A lot of people panic when they see the chieftain 900 because it uses the same engine sound as the Leopard. People turn the corner for the lightly armoured kill and see something that looks big and scary and covered in composite, when really its a puffed up cat with admittedly REALLY sharp claws. Its armour is the same as the mk5 (its literally a mk5 with a better engine, gaijin just hasnt put the LRF on the mk5), the mk5 is defeatable by all L7 gunned tanks easily, this is too. It just can’t run circles around as well as the Khalid either, well within turret rotation speeds.
The mk10
Rewards playing hull down correctly incredibly well but is not unkillable, you can roof scrape them and one shot still and the breech is still made of cheese (no trunion armour modelled).
It can also brawl as the gun handling from that really fast elevation drive and having a deceptively thick turret neck means it can be used to show the skill gap quite well against even the fastest and most unbalanced of foes, however this is reliant on you having faster reactions and on enemy skill issue more than the tank itself, a lot of the time a mk10 centurion would have you perform just as well.
Its not proof that a tank should go up when the tank is almost exclusively observed being used correctly. Unlike pretty much every other tank in the game which is treated as a run and gun light
2 Likes
That is why i ADORE the British Tree, they THRIVE when used like TANKS. Not Go-Carts with Guns.
a pitfall of british tanks in the cold war is that (outside of the CVRT/W family) they are geared and armoured to how they are meant to be used. War thunder doesnt represent that at all
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IK the Chieftain could get to top speed in like 15-20 seconds with ease, ive seen them do it even in the modern day.
Same of the centurions. They geared them LOW, so they could accelerate quickly.
thats not the main reason but is a benefit.
its more that short gears are naturally better for the thick mud tanks are used in. youre crawling not running, optimise for that
2 Likes
Hadn’t crewed the 900, but it’s definitely a worse hull down sniper compared to the MK10, it has 8x vs MK10 having 10x zoom. The T-72 while being a better cqc brawler it definitely has no chance against a hull down Chieftain MK10. While being slow as f the Chieftain carry 120mm smoke grenade, one shell alone can mask a huge area, allowing its slow ass to get to the sniping spots. The T-72 and Chieftain required a completely different playstyle to do well.
literally nobody uses this strat as most maps have no good spots for it to be used.
the only times i even bother with smokes is when i know my gun cant pen most targets, so i smack them with the smoke shell instead, very useful in a churchill tank
Plus the Chieftain just sounds like DEATH, those things going all out sound mean as HELL https://youtu.be/5ob4R07h0y8?si=pjMQe2j2H_Fma-m4
Should learn to use it bro it really compensates for the slow speed. I’ve carried 10 smoke for Chieftain MK10 and FV4030 and use them quite a lot to move from one place to another, sometimes able to enter objective point watched by campers on the hill like marginot line. When use correctly you can even help teammates escape troubles, or help them to get into position.
I dont find the speed of chieftain to be an issue whatsoever. 30mph is enough to get to most spots just fine.
Theres usually a spot or a path that i can make good use of without a smoke barrage that tells people that theres movement in there
1 Like
Don’t care if you reveal your position lol they ain’t gonna pen that turret anyway.
Eh, only a 4/10 for goofiness, Chieftain PIP as a 9.7/10.0 plz
If Gaijin fix all the outstanding bug reports on the Chieftains I could see the Chieftain Mk 10 being fine at 9.3. The 900 as is will always be a worse Khalid with 4mm of structural steel.
If Gaijin are adamant on keeping the 900 as the tech demonstrator then just remove the fake L23 and leave it where it is. The L23A1 was an optional upgrade had the vehicle sold, seeing as the 900 used a Chieftain 5/3P that means it didn’t receive the APFSDS stowage upgrade.
L23 isn’t fake. I’ve explained this before.
It existed in SOME capacity, as can be seen with a few Rounds left with the basic L23 markings.
L23 was a bad round in British testings (which is reflected in game by its tendency to bounce), and MOST of the rounds were retrofitted into L23A1 by replacing the tip penetrator.
EDIT: Found some more info on this, L23 was originally made in the VERY LATE 1970s and early 80s, using the W-Ni-Cu alloy for its Penetrator, L23A1 was a improvement on the shell that used the W-Ni-Fe alloy.