SPAA is the main factor. Moving it up would largely solve the problem.
My argument that plane spawns at that BR are incredibly low is literally backed by my stats.
I doubt it tbh.
I don’t see an issue with that. More actual ground gameplay for me instead of getting bombed by a guy who got a cap and an assist before spawning a fully loaded CAS plane.
You are asking Gaijin to redesign maps to be actually good. Not gonna happen in a million years. The way the game functions right now forces the playstyle of sitting in spawn with SPAA. You can’t really move out of spawn much because you risk dying to tanks, and with SPAA like the M163 or as you get higher with missile SPAA, you cannot adequately defend yourself.
The point is you cannot prove that it’s backed by your stats. The same stats could be representative of someone who sucks at SPAA or someone plaiyng an SPAA that is bad.
The issue is SPAA and CAP are unplayable, ironically, due to being too strong.
Play a few games of XM246, and you’ll see how empty the skies are.
Oh noooo the tank designed to keep the skies clear is keeping the skies clear!!!
SPAA are doing their jobs and keeping the skies clear so people can play their tanks in Ground RB.
I don’t see the issue.
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lol
Agreed. It’s hilarious to argue that an SPAA is doing their job correctly but here you are :)
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Yes. That’s what people should be demanding. Better maps & modes.
No. They should dominate tiny arcade urban maps that Gaijin designs because that’s aligned with how dangerous they are in reality.
The maps are too small for weapons systems designed to fight at 2+km engagement ranges.
Problem is it also keeps the ground clear of tanks as well.
It’s also rather difficult to discuss the balance of CAS/SPAAs around those BRs as compression there is a significant difference in capabilities that they face in an up tier vs a down tier, the XM246 for example is facing planes with dumb weapons and not even CCIP/CCRP when down tiered and potentially even mavericks from the Swiss squadron hunter in an up tier.
Went to this forum thread after the current frustration, 7.3-8.7 is current so frustrating to play with all these 35mm SPAA and Falcons running around. The amount of times I got killed frontally by these SPAAs while playing the T10M and T55A is just beyond normal for a single day.
Like with the current event running, everyone is 1st spawning using Falcons, Gepards and the other 35mm armed SPAA and completely demolishing both ground and air. And today alone ive lost 3 rounds to ITSVPs and Gepards getting so much kills they can spawn in nukes.
If people are going to 35mm armed SPAAs and consistantly getting nukes back to back doesn’t show these SPAAs are PROBLEMATIC and in need of a serious rework, I dont know what will, and of course because these vehicles are not Russian you don’t have people review bombing or constantly making threads whining about the problem that has been an issue since before overpressure was even a thing.
I still say the simplest solution is the best solution. Remove all aphe rounds from them and only give them he with a 40 apds belt.
If it works for the siddam sat at the exact same br as these vehicles they can also deal with it.
And this is a blanket change, so every spaa with a radar should get this change.
or better yet, revert the fragmentation buff. then we get gepards from 2023.
So many other autocannon vehicles come in mind. Pointless to single out Oerlikon 35mm ones.
What WT needs is a general nerf of autocannon vehicles. Also low tier. Its too easy to incap and kill tanks with them. Maps promote them alot, too. They usually get scouting and artillery, ammo boxes.
Its often not worth anymore to spawn a common tank.
The reason I am specificially pointing out the Oerlikon (30mm and 35mm) ones its cause its currently the most problematic one.
Most of them are placed on a chassis that is very fast and nimble essentially acting like light tanks, then as they are AAs, they have very snappy gun control essentially like top tier if not better than top tier MBT, then if i remember correctly they are one of the only SPAA that has belts that are essentially just APHE that has CRAZY rate of fire, like yes there are stuff like the VEAK 40 which well isn’t as good as gepards for the rat playstyle and there is the ZSU 57-2 which is basically relegated purely for anti tank at this point as the rate of fire and gun handling just doesn’t support it well in the AA role.
And now you take all these above points, and add the fact that to spawn in one it takes only 90sp.
Now yes you can argue there’s the Tunguska with mobility that’s in the same ballpark as the Gepard and has better rate of fire, but at least the Tunguska fires solid shot AP, so if it cant pen then it cant pen unlike the Gepards or Falcon which somehow overpressured my T-10M by shooting at the optics.
Also simplest is this, people are mass spawning Oerlikon armed SPAAs first spawn to hunt tank, you dont really see that much done with the other SPAAs, people in general gravitate to what gives them an edge, so yes we should target those 30/35mm Oerlikon armed SPAAs
This one thing I’ve been thinking of, replace the SAP and APHE rounds to be solid shot AP (or as you said, get rid of all the AP round and replace it with HE with only access to a handful of APDS for self defence), they will still have the capacity to defend themselves from light vehicles as well as being able to destroy heavier vehicles from the side, but at least it wont be so busted that it can destroy heavy tanks from range frontally more effectively than dedicated anti tank platforms. Abit like how the ZSU 23-4 and Tunguska is like, can definitely shred tanks but takes more brain then just mag dumping frontally and killing the entire crew cause it hit a pixel spot.
Or a variation of what @Fizzy_Elf1 said, essentially give the realistic APHE behavior for these autocannons, no more perfectly spherical blast zone. At least for the guns that didn’t have solid shot AP
And for the more modern Oerlikon platform like the Gepard 1A2 remove all the AP with DM33 FPADS where it’ll just be APDS with more shrapnel and less penetration but still long range for anti aircraft fire.
What for sure is the main problem is the APHE/SAP slinging capability is just beyond broken.
The needed APHE changes will basically never come now as most people just listened to youtubers and or heard APHE “nerf” and voted against its introduction. This has given gaijin the go ahead to ignore any aphe changes from now on.
This means the only way were balancing them is if we change the belts themselves or the br and as i dont know if the 30, 35mm cannons got solid shot we are stuck with either removing the aphe completely or moving them up which wont do much but take away vital spaa needed for those brs.
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Moving them up wont do anything sadly, best way currently is to replaced with 35mm solid shot. Tho it would be problematic as the 35mm doesn’t have solid shot AP in real life. Granted as a stop gap measure will work, but the “Russian Bias!” mob will absolutely lose their mind over it and will just double down on their Kh38MT rhetoric for the billionth time again.
Or you know, give it the Sidam 25 treatment, allow only the APDS belt and the rest is just full HE. At least until Gaijin, and most importantly the community makes up their mind regarding the APHE change.
Personally I feel APHE change only affecting autocannons would be a good middle ground, but knowing the community…
why do people keep spouting this reddit tier bs? what actually happened:
“no” won on the ‘should this be tested’ vote, the vocal minority bitched so much it was tested anyway. the test server showed how terrible gameplaywise the aphe nerf would have been, so people voted NO again on its implementation
do you really want a complete shake up of BR1.0-8.0 balancing so that 4? 35mm spaa will be nerfed lol