Challenger 2 Overhaul

The CR.2s exist so far outside the current top tier meta this is long past due. The conventional wisdom I’ve always heard is that nations aren’t balanced purely on ground vehicles but the totality of their available lineups. If that’s true however, Britain has not enjoyed particularly dominant ground attack aircraft, helicopters, or anti-air capabilities (in a ground to air capacity nobody is questioning the power of the Typhoon) at top tier for at least the entire time I’ve had the tech tree finished.

At the very least, if nothing else. The recently accepted bug report for the engine power and rebalancing the first stage ammo would be a promising step in the right direction, but I think some more fundamental rework is needed.

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Currently in game the best thing British players can do is, spawn the Typhoon.

I think you responded before I edited to clarify but yeah, it is.

Yeah, I agree. The strongest thing we use to be able to do is rush into CAS. Now we cant even do that.

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I applaud your attempt even though it shall be in-vane as Gaijin will ignore the Challengers forever.
+1 from me and I would absolutely love to see the Challenger 2s fixed.

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The only guaranteed way for nothing to happen is to make no effort at all. I don’t think this is pointless even if our expectations are low.

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Except in regards to the challenger. Trying in this case generally guarantees bad outcomes.

Refer to last Chally rework when they added the Premium. Or the myriad misinterpreted bug reports in favour of nerfing the poor thing.

Two years of trying, not on my part, I only just recently joined the fight for the challenger 2s when I got them earlier this year. But two years of bug reports, constant threads about it and even trying to get the direct attention of devs for the Challenger 2s and… nothing. Nothing has happened. Its what happens with the British tree as a whole.

For the past year that I have been playing, I remember every non premium addition Britain got, and of them only one vehicle was actually decent with the rest of them being extremely mediocre while British mains have been sending in suggestions for real tanks that Britain made, like the 40mm armed Ajax instead of the Badger (and while I am happy the Badger was added as I am South African, using that tank is being an active detriment to your team since you bring no carry potential whatsoever) or after two years the SRAAM finally gets fixed instead of putting the Hunter F.6 down in BR.

The Rapier has been in for like 6 months already and is still terrible. The supposed “fix” they added did nothing, or rather, they didn’t add it at all. Many British tanks are missing rooftop machine guns which they realistically had, that includes ALL the Centurions, the Comet, the Cromwell and a few others, there’s even pictures of Churchills with rooftop mounted MGs. Solid Shot and APDS which is something the British tree relies on is dog water in terms of post-pen damage and shatters on just about any angled surface. The Conqueror doesn’t have its historical reload time (its shell shatters like nothing else and doesn’t do any damage so I’d like to have my 12rpm RoF pls.) and has some gaps in its armour that need to be fixed.

I won’t talk about the British air tree which is mostly fine until about 9.7 where things fall apart until 12.0 with the Tornado F.3 (Tornado F.3 > Phantom FGR.2).

At this point I think British players are just jaded. Its pretty telling when the best vehicles at 10.7 for Britain are non-domestic vehicles like the T-90 Bhishma and the OSA AK/STRELA combo, the only domestic thing about the Vickers Mark 7 is the turret and gun, its performance comes from the excellent Leo 2 chassis its mounted to.

The best Chieftain in the game is the Khalid which is a Mark 9 with a Challenger 2 power pack installed and the best 9.3s in the game are South African with the Rooikat MTTD providing a fast auto-loaded solution and the Olifant Mark 2 having some of the best thermals in its BR with its standoff armour able to survive quite a lot of ATGMs thrown at it, there is the VFM 5 which is nice, its slower than the MTTD but it gets a .50 cal on the roof and is smaller and quieter. I often prefer it for city maps over the MTTD. As for 9.3 CAS options you get the Buccaneer. SPAA? Nah, you either have to uptier yourself to constant 10.7 uptiers with the Rapier at 9.7 or you have to bring the ZA-35.

So in this case I’ll have to apologise if it feels like my message has come across as giving up but with all the pain I’ve suffered playing the British tree and Gaijin doing nothing about the most glaring issues with its top tier and some of the issues in the middle tiers, I feel like all I can do at this point is just grit my teeth, upvote posts that highlight issues and hope that sometimes in the distant future Gaijin will do it. Our recent victory was dropping the Hunter F.1 to 8.7 where it belongs. I took it out for some matches after that change and it was a joy to fly.

But yeah, thats my rant as someone who has taken the British trees to top tier except naval and helicopters. Back to being on topic for the Challenger 2s.

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Took 3 years for SRAAMs to go from unusable buggy mess to maybe actually quite a decent missile.

and there are a number of issues for aircraft that we are still waiting on to be resolved for way longer than we should have had to wait. Harriers for example are a complete mess at the moment.

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I’ve been at it since the challenger 1 came to the game then the challenger 2. Years of bug reports, information gathering from books unclassified document’s from the national archives, pictures, video’s e.g

I wasted my own time and money on getting both challenger’s fixed. Its honestly been such a pain in the ass. Like if anyone remembers the og war thunder forms challenger 1 and 2 thread’s they would know how much time and effort I put in to finding any information I can on both tanks from the armour of challenger 1 to the add-on armour kits of challenger 2. I honestly did so much research i helped with multiple bug reports even did a few myself. All to fall in deaf ears. It was so disheartening after wasting all my time and money to basically get no reasonable results.

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It’s funny how Gaijin inadvertently fuel the compulsion for people to leak or release documents/photographs or reports all caused by an inflexible bug reporting process.
They could give CR2 a slight BHP buff and larger ready rack, buff L27A1 to match or exceed M289A1 and every British player would be happy.

It is that simple, it wouldn’t break the game it wouldn’t make CR2 broken.

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I don’t know if I like… Gave the impression that I’m somehow satisfied with the current state of affairs or you’re just using my post as a jumping off point to rant (which is fine) but that’s certainly not the case. Just to be clear.

I have my fair share of gripes with the status quo, I’m just trying to not get my hopes up for change or let it irritate me.

Nah, that’s not the impression I got lol
I kind of went off a tangent there, being the tired British main I am.

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As a bug reporter i can say the process can be obstructing and like talking to a brick wall unless you know a couple of the tech mods on discord. that plus some very passionate players does mean it will always be inevitable.

Do think that if gaijin were less of a brick wall to the knowledgeable players and were a bit more logical in implementation of certain boundaries and mechanics (FnF missile modes, ready racks and reload speeds to name a few things) the sekrit dokiment issue would be reduced substancially

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Gaijin also needs to be open to making reasonable guesstimations without demanding primary sources or multiple secondary sources where none exists. (especially when they block said secondary sources because “marketing lies”)

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Shame that they dont take historical footage for reports. You bet it would have used the centurion pathe reel for a reload buff.

shame theres no rewards for bug reports other than making a vehicle behave right

They uses to give 1000GE (for at least the first report) but they stopped that it seems.

Yeah, thats people exploiting videos and editting them to gain buffs ruining it for everyone else. I have a report up for Harrier landing gear speed using videos and im hoping that 2x videos is enough to mitigate that problem. Especially for what is a minor issue that has no balancing implications

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maybe just like a dollars worth. its not much at all but it would be an appreciated token of thanks. plus it rewards major nug reporters in great ways.

bit like that doctored panther F photo to try and claim it was in service (it wasnt) people are scummy to prove points
image
image

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The CR1s are solidly better than the Bhishma I really don’t know what you mean by that, the CR1s have better turret armour and are fairly comparable mobility wise, though worse. While having significantly better gun handling and reload. That’s without going into the Mk.7 which I find most people sleep on.

Come on lmao, that’s extremely reductive, is the Firefly not domestic anymore, the Tornados?

  1. it’s a early power pack from before the CR1s were developed
  2. Of course it’s one of the better Chieftains, post 7.7 the game shifts to a mobility “meta”, all the Chieftains have solid guns, the Khalid has the mobility to really exploit it.

The VFM.5 is actually faster in most situations (29 hp/t vs the MTTD’s 19.9), and with a aced crew reloads just as fast, while having both better gun handling and ammunition layout (imo).

There’s a reason it’s 9.3, unlike the Mk.10 at 9.0, kinda hard to not be the best tt mbt when you’re the only one at 9.3. It also a hp/t which isn’t too far off the Rooikat MTTD (17.4 hp/t vs the 19.9 of the MTTD, the chieftain Mk.10 has 13.3 hp/t).

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Make the laser at tier 2 and change the stock shell