Challenger 2 Overhaul

Special thanks to @PuffyTornado and @Kobes-Kamov for helping me write this

As it currently stands, the Challenger 2 is one of the weakest tanks at top tier, it has way below average firepower, its the slowest tank by far and it has next to no meaningful survivability and yet it is expected to operate directly alongside far more powerful tanks such as the M1A2 Abrams and Leopard 2A7Vs. This often creates a feeling of a full uptier even when playing against tanks the same BR as you, which is never pleasant.

However, many of the issues the Challenger 2 faces are down to entirely ahistorical problems, with accepted, outstanding reports that have simply never been looked at. Some more than 2 years old at this point. Over a year ago, an overhaul was promised, but this only fixed a few minor issues, dismissed several reports and then made several ahistorical changes. The vast majority of reports still remain outstanding, including all the most pressing and critical issues. .The full list of reports still left untouched are below, but I will highlight some of the most critical reports in greater detail.

Mobility:

The Challenger 2 is not known for its mobility, and whilst there is no expectation for the Challenger 2 to be keeping pace with every top tier MBT, it can certainly be improved. One of the more recent reports from the list would increase output of the engine used in both the Challenger 1 & 2 submitted @Sebbo_the_Plebbo

At the moment the engine currently produces 1200bhp/1217 metric horsepower however this is incorrect and the engine instead should output 1296bhp/1314 metric horsepower. A significant increase in engine power. The full report can be read here:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/89Va3YcYh50L

Firepower:

The Challenger 2 currently has one of the weakest shells at top tier, and whilst it is almost certainly underperforming compared to real life, we are confined to game conventions that massively limit the shells performance. However this does not mean the Challenger 2’s firepower cannot be improved by a notable amount.

The first is a nice simple issue, the specs for the L27A1 are wrong and could be improved to increase penetration by a few mm. The report submitted by @Flame2512 which you can read here:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/bMbEJftRqiSp

Would increase the pen from 564mm to 572mm at 10m range and 538mm to 546mm at 2000m. A small increase, but every little helps.

The other more important change however is one of fire rate. For a long time, the Challenger 2 balanced out it’s weaknesses with a higher than average fire rate. This has since been “removed” by giving this same reload to far stronger tanks such as the Abrams and whilst a further reload rate buff would be appreciated, it is not the only way the fire rate can be improved. At the moment, the Challenger 2 only has a 4 round ready rack, and it takes 20+ seconds to replenish each round of this ready rack. This means it is not uncommon to be operating large portions of the match within the second stage of ammo at a far slower reload than 5 seconds. However this 4 round ready rack is almost certainly wrong. Reports by @KnightFelix and @Flame2512 submitted more than 2 years ago now clearly show that the main ammo storage in the turret should be considered the first stage of ammo, as it is on the Chieftain and most other top tier MBTs the reports can be read here:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/ojFgCJ6Jnos4
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/nzUoCC2yxJx5

In addition to these older reports, a new report by @PuffyTornado shows that the current “ready rack” on the TES/OES shouldn’t even be there. These stowage locations were removed to make room for data terminals and Enforcer RWS controllers. Which only reinforces the idea that these shells shouldn’t be considered the ready rack for the rest of the Challenger 2 series (and even the Challenger 1). The report can be read here:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/qZAtZXFlUseB?comment=8ZOvf98gxtWqr4MCanIVsTxi

Survivability:

The Challenger 2 is renowned for its survivability and yet in game, a single hit anywhere is nearly always a death sentence and the vast majority of the outstanding reports cover the survivability of the Challenger 2. From missing spall liners and literally holes in the armour all the way to the ERA providing ⅓ of the protection it should be. The Challenger 2 has it all. There are too many to cover in detail and the battle for many of them has been on-going for years without any success.

To that end, I’m just going to focus on several reports regarding missing spall liners from @Kobes-Kamov & @CHARM_3. At the moment, only the turret has any meaningful coverage but most of the main tank body is lacking most of them bar the upper front plate. Adding all the missing spall liners would have a massive increase in survivability as currently a hit anywhere is usually always a one shot due to crew positions and ammo locations. The full report can be found here:

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/uKfLG2d5jfoW

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/y65891XieBAA

CHARM’s report was closed, because the information had already been submitted internally, but there is no sign of it being implemented as of yet

Utility

The Challenger 2s could also be outfitted with dozer blades which could improve the survivability for any hits to the LFP, but more importantly would improve the utility the Challenger 2 provides. It would also improve the available options for getting into an effective hulldown position where the Challenger 2 often best operates. If nothing else, it adds some unique gameplay to the Challenger 2 which is largely missing from any tank at top tier. Not all buffs need to be about directly buffing the vehicle. Buffs to gameplay can be just as effective.

This issue is of perticular note as the Challenger 2 already has a dozer blade modeled. It was originally a part of the dev server for the original Challenger 2 and as far as I am aware, is still in the files just disabled. It would be trivial to add to multiple CR2s. I dont beleive any official reason was given as to why it was removed.

An official suggestion for this is up by @CHARM_3 and can be found here:

61140f213b7b880b7230ea88b513ab29799a27aa_2_1000x666

So these are the most pressing issues. Reports never looked at, that would make the Challenger 2 a little more worthy for their current BRs. Without at least some of these changes. It is nearly impossible to justify a BR of even 11.3 for any of them. Let alone 12.0. The full list of reports can be found below and if any are missing, please do let me know and i’ll add them to the list:

Bug List

Challenger 2 Bugs:

Mobility related

Armour/survivability

Base Armour

Externall Armour

Internal Armour

Other components

APS

Weapon Systems

Optics/Thermals

Main gun

Other armament

Miscellaneous

Challenger 2 Suggestions;


Would you be interested in seeing these changes?

  • Fix the major issues highlighted
  • Total Challenger 2 Overhaul
  • Its fine as it is
0 voters
25 Likes

#Justice4Challenger2s

+1 Challengers need their love

5 Likes

+1 from me, the day minor nation MBTs get fixed will be a very, very good day

3 Likes

+1 So many of the Chally 2 bug reports have been ignored for literally years while the vehicle suffers

5 Likes

IMO, increasing first ammo stowage would be a huge buff to it.

6 Likes

I watched 2 streams. One of them it said that the challanger 3 td got a engine buff and its new hp is 1860 and top speed is 66km, the other it was nerfed to 1080 something and top speed around 59

2 Likes

It entered the game at 1500 and then got nerfed down to 1200 not that long afterwards. A relatively recent support shows it should be at 1300. But hasnt been implemented yet.

2 Likes

Suggestion for Challenger 2 Dozer Blade - Challenger 2 Family Dozer Blade Modification (BEMA / TWMP) @Morvran

3 Likes

Added. I actually “stole” the dozer image from your suggestion but for some reason didnt even think to link it. Sorry about that :D

3 Likes

Challenger 2 is one of the oldest modern MBTs, and a unusual one to model, we have to remember that. If we want to balance it, we need to fix its bugs, and/or give it a bit of help to bring it on a bit more realistic terms.

Reload time or 1st stage ammo replenishment time should be buffed. Back to 4sec reload, or replenishment of 1st stage ammo storage down to 30-40secs or somewhere near (i think its over 1:30 currently).
L27A1 should have its pen increased (seen a few complaining about lack of spall too)

3 Likes

All good, idc if u do or dont link it, im not one of those people.

2 Likes

Noble attempt. Shame it will be in vain.

I was only reminded of these tanks’ ingame existence because of this post lmao.

3 Likes

Yeah… but its a google doc, so I can C&P it every major update

Took 2 years but they finally fixed SRAAMs

2 Likes

Outstanding move! Hopefully this time it will work so that the Challengers aren’t entirely pointless as they currently are.

3 Likes

Also @Morvran 2nd to last link, barracuda camo netting, that link takes you to the Enforcer RCWS… https://web.archive.org/web/20180301044344/http://www.leonardocompany.com/documents/63265270/66465238/mm08109_Enforcer_RWS_LQ_.pdf

2 Likes

Oh haha

1 Like

I dont know if you meant this?: Challenger 2 & TES SolarΣShield Modification

2 Likes

Perfect thank you

1 Like

+1 for chally 2 !!

2 Likes

But the 1 i linked is SolarShield which is different to Barracuda. Barracuda is already on the TES in game on the turret face and small areas, not the full cover. Just incase u get confused cause u have it named as barracuda, different but similar. SolarSheild better i think.

2 Likes