Challenger 2 needs to be brought to developers attention

Wherever that post comes from it is factually incorrect, CR1-400 did not become CR2. The Challenger 2 had already been ordered for production by the time CR1-400 was considered.

CR1-400 was a proposal to upgrade the UK’s fleet of Challenger 1s, by fitting them with production Challenger 2 turrets, so that they could continue to serve alongside the Challenger 2 instead of being retired.

And yes it is declassified as apparently you need to clarify that now.

He is however correct in that the tweet is not the original source for those images (I took the photographs at the National Archives).

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I belive this is what the early batch of CR2’s Oman got however the hulls were upgraded with sand filters and CR2 components.

I think I might be wrong with this but you can tell them apart by the straight edge skirt plate compared to CR2’s jaged plate


960x0

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Could we get a comment on the mobility, specifically the gearing of the ch2?

I get the armour, it’s ultimately guesswork on modern vehicles, but the mobility and gearing are gaijin decisions.

I have searched the bug report forums for challenger 2 and gear, and there are reports which are closed, the most recent from 6 months ago closed as “Not a bug”. I get it, it’s not a bug as it was implemented that way deliberately, probably to try and give the tank some more oomph at lower speeds howeer the ratios are messing up the low speed manouverability something rotten. This is shown fairly clearly in this video :

I guess what I’m asking is where do we go from here on getting this looked at? A bug report will be closed, so what other options to we have?

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https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/poaIqrEphL7B

This one is already acknowledged

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I saw that, but it looks more about the tracks, not the gearing.

I suspect there are multiple issues with the ch2s power train as modelled which all combine to make it’s mobility sub par compared to what it should be.

My issue specifically is with the jerking the tank does on the move as it is constantly switching gears due to the very short lower gears.

In the video it jumps between 4th and 5th gear, so ratios
image
That is a decent change.
image
It seems irl it would be 2nd to 3rd, but i doubt it would jump like that

Does this suggest the Challenger 2’s hull is lighter than Challenger 1? CR-400 exceeding MLC 70 but CR2 not.

CR1-400 is a CR1 hull + CR2 turret. So yes, it stands to reason that the difference in weight is due to the CR1-400 hull being heavier than the CR2 hull (as CR1-400 and CR2 use the same turret).

However CR1-400 would have included some upgrades to the base CR1 hull.

Edit: These are the CR1-400 hull upgrades:

And the weight:

No mention of armour change interestingly.

No mention of “improved chobham” capability either, I wonder if the design or mounting isn’t compatible with the hull

The Challenger 1 hull already met SR(L) 4026 requirements, so they probably didn’t feel like changing it for the sake of changing it.

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Yeah, which kinda sucks, 350 KE with some being left on the table without the new armour tech is quite sad.

(Or, it already uses the new armour tech, and chally 1 got mid life upgraded, given it started at 300 in 1982, rises to 350 in 90’s).

Undeniable proof that the panniers are unfortunately unarmoured.

It says A pack, not ONE pack, and it says “around” the drivers position, not Central portion.

We should just go to Jordan and ask them to cut one open for us lmao

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That’s good news. Now what we really need is an “actioned” marker and then that’s one nailed

Hello! I wanted to add a bit to this discussion by talking about the issues regarding the modelling of the mantlet.

A few days ago, I made this diagram basing myself off publicly available pictures and common sense. If needed, I could do an actually fully scaled and valued version.

According to my estimates based on the visual evidence, the cover on the mantlet’s sides should be 120mm thick (optics cover remain as 30mm!), and the internal shield + rotor should be 400mm thick instead of 200.

These changes would give Challenger 2’s mantlet a value around 550mm KE, which also fits the value for the protection requirement the tank had.

Gameplay wise, this would allow Challenger 2’s crew to survive mantlet hits gather often against many shells, leading at most to its gun being disabled and some internal spalling; but the highest penning shells would still be able to punch through it in most circumstances.

Therefore, gameplay wise, it wouldn’t be overpowered; but it would make the tank far more usable by allowing it to enjoy its only redeeming quality and selling point: ARMOR.

Challenger 2 is in a miserable state and this needs to change.

Another huge issue is how long it takes to replenish the first stage ammo rack.

Most tanks take 10-16 seconds, while Challenger 2 takes 26+. WHY? Why does it take twice as long on CR2 to move the shells 40cm than in some tanks to move the shells from the front/back of the hull into the turret? It does not make sense. CR2’s rate of fire is meant to be its only saving grace along with its armor, yet both are extremely nerfed, so it’s just pointless to play the tank as of this state.

“Just do bug reports”? We have been doing bug reports since the first time the tank appeared on a dev server back in damn 2019 and nothing, NOTHING has been done!

So maybe we need to act through different channels to finally have the CR2 issue get taken seriously by the developers.

Also: why the hell is Challenger 2E’s right side of the hull armor even weaker than the base Challenger 2?

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https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/GX8sVMGyoiMg

Will lob this in too.

Nice diagram whoever drew that, might be a good idea to do a cut-away version though.

Nice diagram, do you have a higher resolution version of that image of the gun in a cradle outside of the turret?