I had gotten it from the MOD Basement discord, @Fireball_2020 posted it i believe, he may have more insight
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got nuked
Sad
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Hell it used to, the Challenger Mk2 was 9.7 for a LONG time, and it honestly wasn’t Super OP back then.
I don’t think people realize how much Gaijin prioritizes the whinier parts of the player base when it comes to “Balance” Decisions.
Look at the Chieftain MK10. That thing was still performing pretty bad at 9.0, and it got moved to 9.3 for no reason, and didn’t even get a buff to compensate.
Meanwhile the T-58, Turm III, and what ever flavor of the month OP AF 8.0-9.0 Premium is, always get hand held and barely moved or changed.
The T-55AM1 stayed at 8.3 for YEARS even as other tanks got moved up around it, Things like the Chieftain Mk3 and Mk5. Same for the Object 906, that thing absolutely stomped on allied teams for YEARS.
The Tam 2IP was also a good example, that thing had APFSDS and a LRF, at a BR where most other thanks barely had a Coincidence range finder and APDS.
And need i even MENTION the garbage that was the WMA fighting 7.7s with a dart, LRF, and THERMALS.
And its not like the Challenger 1 was even a tough kill at 9.7 at the time, its mantlet is even weaker than the C2s, and the turret armor is deceptively weak despite how it looks. Alot of rounds you don’t expect will just blow straight through it.
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Famously doesn’t use the same round. I mean do you want a weaker round to deal with T-80UD?
what round are we talking about?
Rule 2 of fight club Teaz.
You act like the Chally had 0 changes/buffs to it. Like the pool of vehicles at that BR hasn’t changed… You even admit the T-55M1 was too low, so there are vehicles up in BR that previously weren’t alongside the Chally 1… So saying it used to be 9.7 way back when isn’t relevant. When the BR range around it also has changed.
I’m just saying playing a T-55 against a REAL Chally 1 (because the FV4030 was nerfed a few times because it was plainly ridiculous on the first month of release). If T-55 players thought the Merkava was tough to deal with they haven’t seen anything yet. Not to mention an M60AoS? Using APDS or HEAT? You have to think about other players too.
T-55A, M60AoS, AMX 30s with 0 stabilizers, etc vehicles vs a REAL chally 1 isn’t gonna be fun if they know wtf they’re doing. Hell being in a T-62 vs the XM-1 isn’t fun either and that has way less armor.
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L26 if the Mk3 goes to 9.7. And wasn’t there a whole thing about “L23A1” not being real and there were points being made that the FV 4030 could be historically knocked down to just using APDS with no dart?
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The Argument is about the original L23, L23A1 did exist. L23 is contested at best, There are Rounds out there stamped L23, But documentation is confusing about it.
Also the 4030 is like 8 years too old to even have APFSDS, it should have APDS, and the HEATFS that was developed for the gun for export markets.
As the 4030 was meant to be a Export version of the MBT-80 in all intents and purposes.
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The Challenger Mk2 is legit the exact same tank it was when it was 9.7, it has had NO buffs. The Mk3 did get A buff, L26A1. But past that its still the same too.
The 4030 however SHOULD be nerfed, it needs to go down to 9.7 or even 9.3.
With changes, Remove the APFSDS, Fix L15A5, keep the gimped composite it has, and give it the Chieftains reload, instead of the challengers reload, because internally it was more similar to the Chieftain than the production challengers.
no no no no no… dont you dare touch my shir 2.
also it uses the same gun as the cheiftain mk10 so why wouldnt it use apfsds?
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Because its years too old. The FV4030 is a 1970s tank, The First APFSDS the British used was made in 1984/85.
Same gun doesn’t mean same rounds, the Chieftain Mk5 and Mk10 have the same gun, yet the Mk5 Doesn’t get a dart.
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the shir 2 was unveiled in 1980 and l23a1 was serviced in 1983 so the timeline isnt to fat off, also i do not want a shir 2 nerf
So you just want a worse Challenger that gets stomped on?
Nerf it down into a Br where its useful and it will be alright.
As is its just not great at all unless you get on a long range map, and even then its dubious due to the sights.
Also the Shir 2’s first prototype (Which is whats modeled in game) was completed in October 1978.
Even with the unveiling in 1980, its still too old to use APFSDS. The first production l23/L23A1 (depending on what side you are on in that argument) Was made in 1983. AFTER the Challenger 1 was already being worked on from the Dead end 4030 program. The 4030 Program died in 1981.
the shir 2 as it sits is one of if not the best challenger in the game
put into service in 1983. it started development in 1977 and started testing i believe in 1980 then was put into sevice in 1983 so it is possible
also how would it be better at 9.3 with apds? a sub 300mm of pen sabot at that br is stupid
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It makes sense it would be 9.3 if they removed the APFSDS.
THE 4030 NEVER SAW SERVICE.
There are distinct differences between the Shir 2 and the Challenger 1. ARE YOU DAFT?
They are different tanks.
The 4030 was a development for IRAN, as a export tank, it was HEAVILY modified by the British army before it was selected for service and started production in 1983.
The tanks are not the same. at all. The 4030s had a entirely different Chobam Array, that was weaker, a different fire control system,
Why are people picking on the 4030 now, it’s probably once of the best br’d and balanced tanks within the brit tree.
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