Challenger 2 MBT - Technical data and Discussion (Part 2)

[FeroxTheFoxDad]

@NoreZi

Too bad those big chunky era blocks on OES/TES doesn’t provide extra KE protection

As far as we know. But it would pull us back into the KE protection argument that we have been through with gaijin over and over and over again… It would help if they actually preformed at an angle, rather than preforming as flat blocks no matter the angle they are shot at.

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@NoreZi

Slow challenger are only TES/OES

All the challenger 2’s are slow, the only outlier being the 2E with its MTU. Keeping in mind, if they gave the Chally 2 the CV12-9a engine, it might not be so bad afaik; but the army didn’t really upgrade all the Chally 2’s with them IRL; but you know, the Russian army didn’t really upgrade all their T72’s with new engines either, but you can still give the B3 its engine upgrade.

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@NoreZi

Mantlet should be buffed for me, it’s too easy to snap 2 crew member just by shooting gun mantlet when few pixels below you have guaranteed kill weak spot.

This is the biggest problem with chally 2 imo. problem one is getting to a good position before anyone else, but because you are slow, you usually cant. Second problem is that, when you are in a good position the first thing anyone will see is your hull, your roof or your breach, all of which are weak spots.

If you decide to hold a corner, your hull is a huge weakspot and can be penned by almost literally anything. If they decide to push you, they can shoot you literally anywhere but the turret cheeks and get through you and likely one shot you; meanwhile you wont get through them because of your weak round, and them actually having armour; meaning you need to actually focus a weak spot on them which they don’t have to do to you.

If you decide to hull down (which you should), pushing over a hill will expose your roof and your breach first, which in the chally 3td, can cause you to get breach shot and ammo racked, meaning a one shot. in the chally 2, you get shot losing both your commander and gunner in one shot, or your roof is a susceptible target too, not just by HE. there’s a section of the roof that Russian APFSDS likes to pen at range fairly easily, which yet again weakens its hull down ability.

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@Morvran

Its a shame we dont even get gimmicky things like dozer blades.

Oh the woe. I still remember the days that the standard challenger 2 had one. Curse Gaijin and what they have taken from us.

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Chally 3(TD) btw.

Can be easily one shot through the same weak spot as challenger 2 due to ammo rack.

[Tea_And_Country]

The thing gaijin did is “assume” (they had to pull some kind of bullshit out of their ass) the 80-100ke included the side armour of the challenger… To show how monumentally retarded this is the ke value was stated for the blocks and assuming the challengers side or even the backing plate helped in it all is stupid as these same blocks can be put on other vehicles such as the warrior. So does the armour of the warrior equate to the same as the challenger?

[FeroxTheFoxDad]

all Gaijin can do is assume, and use the limited information that is available that ISNT classified. The problem with these modern vehicles is that its almost always classified, so Gaijin have to pull a number out of their *** to try and guess what it would be. The issue then stands that, usually their guesses, unless theres clear evidence to say otherwise are sometimes not even in the ballpark of accurate.

so, yes they guess. It would be nice if their guesses would actually be competitive though not just clearly giving it lower numbers for the sake of giving it lower numbers.

[Morvran]

I think enough non-classified sources have been found, especially during that massive push last year (or was it even the year before…) that they should have very little guess work left to do.

What they do need to do however, is actually put on some reading glasses and read some bug reports. but unfortunately, im not sure they know how to do that

[FeroxTheFoxDad]

yeah, however I just don’t think they care anymore. I remember reading somewhere when they said about the challenger 2 getting a massive rework ages ago, that they would give up dev blog updates as they do things to it, yet we never got any… but i might be misremembering it.

[Morvran]

We did get a dev blog, where they basically said no, you are wrong and we are nerfing the CR2

[FlyingOstridge]

The simple solution is to make all Challenger 2’s the OES with HAAIP and move the 2008 TES above the normal DL2E Chally.

[FeroxTheFoxDad]

All im saying is that, if the T72B3 can get an engine upgrade it barely saw in real life, then chally 2 can get its HAAIP as a modification.

This goes back to my armour drop down suggestion; where having all the challenger 2’s named by their year, and having a drop down menu which lists each armour package the vehicle could have based on their year would be good. give them all HAAIP, then use the drop down menu to select armour packages depending on the year.

Change Modifications in active battle - Armour drop down menu

This suggestion is about giving players the ability to add or remove certain modifications on vehicles in an active game, or to customize their vehicles to the maps they are playing on. In real life, a vehicle crew would equip their vehicle with modifications based on the environment that the vehicle would be deployed in, for example the WWII German winter tracks, or chained snow tyres such as on the wolfpack, wouldn’t be used on a muddy battlefield or solid roads, so should be optional and re…

shameless plug here- but its still on topic for Chal2 as it would help it.

[Necrons31467]

@FeroxTheFoxDad

the Russian army didn’t really upgrade all their T72’s with new engines either, but you can still give the B3 its engine upgrade.

The very definition of that upgrade is (among other changes) it’s V-92S2F engine. I think you’ll have a difficult time finding any T-72B3M’s without the V-92S2F engine mounted.

[FeroxTheFoxDad]

@Necrons31467

T-72B3M’

the T-72 in the game is a B3, not a B3M. The M models, yes. Not the standard B3. Any B3’s upgraded to M standard would be fitted with them, but in game it is a B3 and that can not be changed.

[Necrons31467]

Mate, you just posted a screenshot of you having your mouse cursor pointed at a modification which turns it into the T-72B3M.

[FeroxTheFoxDad]

so when it destroys another vehicle in the kill feed, it says B3M then does it?.. No. Its a B3 with a modernisation package, not a full B3M conversion AFAIK.

Either a B3 gets a UBH package which is a stopgap upgrade that not many saw or its converted into a B3M, which the only B3M in the game currently is the one with Area APS.

my point is that, Not many B3’s saw the UBH upgrade. Not many Chally 2’s saw the HAAIP upgrade. But the T72 gets the UBH upgrade, which improves its engine, but Chally 2 doesnt get it HAAIP upgrade despite being in the same boat.

[Necrons31467]

T-72B3 UBH and T-72B3M are two different names for the same upgrade program. ‘‘UBH’’ simply means Improved Combat Characteristics.

If you’re still not convinced, I’d just challenge you to find me a single difference between the two models.

[FeroxTheFoxDad]

“The T-72B3 UBH is an upgraded version of the T-72B3, featuring improved mobility (due to a more powerful engine) and enhanced protection (with Relikt ERA and slat armor). The T-72B3M, especially the obr. 2022 version, builds upon this with a new thermal sight, improved ERA on the turret and hull, and potentially other minor enhancements. Essentially, the T-72B3M, with the UBH package”

They. Are. Different.

[Necrons31467]

Just pulling a quote of out nowhere without citing it’s source isn’t exactly convincing, especially because I suspect it’s just AI slop.

@FeroxTheFoxDad

a new thermal sight

So tell me, what new thermal sight is mounted?

@FeroxTheFoxDad

improved ERA on the turret and hull

Oh really? Please tell me more.

Which areas saw new and improved ERA being mounted? What type of ERA was replaced by what other type of ERA?

@FeroxTheFoxDad

and potentially other minor enhancements.

Oh please don’t be too specific.

[FeroxTheFoxDad]

At this point, I’m not going to argue with someone who is clearly here to incite conflict. The information is available, and if you want to find it, you can. This is a challenger 2 thread, so I suggest we get back to that, rather than pressing the matter.

The challenger 2’s deserve their HAIIP upgrade as a modification. End of.

[luque13]

You know Obr 22 is a wartime programme improvement.

Additional armour is likely the K5 on the lower front glacis plate and the front fenders. Maybe the rear. The rubber screens to protect from drones and air dropped munitions. RELIKT side skirts in place of the 4S24 bags that snag and fall off.

The new thermal will be the one that replaced the SOSNA-U. 1PN96MT-02 down to availability problems.

[Necrons31467]

@luque13

You know Obr 22 is a wartime programme improvement.

I don’t know what that model has to do with the variants we’re discussing.

[NoreZi]

@FeroxTheFoxDad

All the challenger 2’s are slow, the only outlier being the 2E with its MTU. Keeping in mind, if they gave the Chally 2 the CV12-9a engine, it might not be so bad afaik; but the army didn’t really upgrade all the Chally 2’s with them IRL; but you know, the Russian army didn’t really upgrade all their T72’s with new engines either, but you can still give the B3 its engine upgrade.

I mean yes when compared to other MBTs. I gather experience only from OES and Chally DS as for now and Chally 1 DS (that have the same engine and mass than Chally 2’s without add-ons) is a lot more maneuverable then Chally 2 OES. Actually OES/TES in game are slower than any kind of Merkava from what I saw haha. But sure, engine upgrade would be great imo. It would still be slower than others but it would be definitely better.

@FeroxTheFoxDad

This is the biggest problem with chally 2 imo. problem one is getting to a good position before anyone else, but because you are slow, you usually cant. Second problem is that, when you are in a good position the first thing anyone will see is your hull, your roof or your breach, all of which are weak spots.

If you decide to hold a corner, your hull is a huge weakspot and can be penned by almost literally anything. If they decide to push you, they can shoot you literally anywhere but the turret cheeks and get through you and likely one shot you; meanwhile you wont get through them because of your weak round, and them actually having armour; meaning you need to actually focus a weak spot on them which they don’t have to do to you.

If you decide to hull down (which you should), pushing over a hill will expose your roof and your breach first, which in the chally 3td, can cause you to get breach shot and ammo racked, meaning a one shot. in the chally 2, you get shot losing both your commander and gunner in one shot, or your roof is a susceptible target too, not just by HE. there’s a section of the roof that Russian APFSDS likes to pen at range fairly easily, which yet again weakens its hull down ability.

It should produce a lot less spalling that its currectly have. It should be penetrated like any other gun mantlet in the game but it should take maybe 1 and breech but definitely not 2-3 crew members, breech and ammo behind the loader. Like you have many other weakspot that you can shoot at, drivers port, lower glacis, roof. Definitely possible to do as any part of this tank armour is pure guesstimation.

Its pretty funny as well that this tank has hull spallliners only on the thickest part of hull armour, nowhere else, like the british would thought about it being penetrated. Weird stuff xdd

@Tea_And_Country

The thing gaijin did is “assume” (they had to pull some kind of bullshit out of their ass) the 80-100ke included the side armour of the challenger… To show how monumentally retarded this is the ke value was stated for the blocks and assuming the challengers side or even the backing plate helped in it all is stupid as these same blocks can be put on other vehicles such as the warrior. So does the armour of the warrior equate to the same as the challenger?

I remember that some years ago. Hilarious stuff

[Kobes-Kamov]

One of the issues here is that I dont know if we have any solid evidence that the HAAIP upgrade improves the engine to 1500hp