CAS problem

[warrior412]

@gangsterism

a random poll on youtube is a lot more trustworthy

Given all of its many flaws, as noted above, that is not true. The fact that anyone on YouTube (not necessarily WT players or even real people) can take part is enough to disqualify it on its own…nevermind any and all of the other issues it suffers with.

@gangsterism

the laughable opinions of a few salty CAS mains on here.
and yet, they were enough to allow gaijin to pretend that CAS isnt a problem

More laughable than that suggestion is the idea that Gaijin reads the forums in-depth at all…c’mon. At best, Gaijin skims the forums and I’m not even sure we can say they do that on a regular basis.

Giving anyone here credit for their moves and missteps is…probably not accurate.

@gangsterism

no, some people are CAS mains and always spawn an aircraft instead of continuing the fight on the ground

Again, above there was a bit more nuance in subsequent posts. As I stated above, Cap-n-Fly people don’t impress me either…or anyone else usually. (If that is what you meant by CAS mains, I could understand your aggravation a bit more than being angry at some tanker who flies using his lineup).

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@2112SLM

Yet there is no reason to believe that the data you are currently using to make your point is any more valid than the data from the poll you have chosen to eschew as “corrupted”.

It appears you believe I have spoken of the 2017 as if it refers to 2025…I have not. I have explicitly stated the 2017 data only refers to its own context.

The 2017 data is of better quality than the cited YouTube poll both because:

• The 2017 data was derived from in-game actions (kills/deaths recorded)
• YouTube polls are utterly vulnerable to manipulation
  • You don’t even have to be a WT player to vote
  • There’s no specificity in that poll about what CAS is even being referred to (1.0s, mid BRs, top tier?)

The data set from that YouTube poll is so loose and vulnerable that there’s no way it can be taken as a serious tally…it’s just too hamstrung.

@2112SLM

Then you resort to anecdotal evidence

Not really. When I have recalled my own results, it’s been quite specific with limited approximation…far more specificity than what one might call mere anecdotal evidence. If better data filtration and/or a recording service was around, all of this would be much easier.

There’s a huge difference in the quality of testimonies that vary between estimating one’s own death rate at ~10% and those that say ‘aircraft destroys me 110% of the time!’ One is reasonable, the other is clearly exaggerated.

@2112SLM

You have leaned heavily into that data, basing much of your “argument” on what we both know is data that is only relevant to eight years ago, not today.

I have clearly stated many times that the 2017 data refers to 2017; beyond that, I have speculated that similar trends persist, with perhaps bigger changes occurring in the wild and ever changing tides 9.X+.

That’s about as fair as anyone can really be and that’s while others are painting in far broader strokes with less basis than I.

[gangsterism]

@warrior412

The fact that anyone on YouTube (not necessarily WT players or even real people) can take part is enough to disqualify it on its own

you can say the same about people who play CAS defending CAS.

@warrior412

More laughable than that suggestion is the idea that Gaijin reads the forums in-depth at all

of course they dont, but with enough discussion about some topic, it will eventually get to the devs.
but if a CAS main try their hardest to shut down any discussion, it doesnt get far.

@warrior412

If that is what you meant by CAS mains

yes, CAS mains are people who primarily have fun playing CAS and abusing tanks.
i occasionally get in a ka50 when there is an opportunity, but im by no means a “CAS main” or even a cas player altogether. 99.9% of the time im in a tank.
on the other hand, CAS mains spend a great deal of their time in an aircraft, and see tanks as equal to aircraft at most, if not as nothing more than necessary gameplay just to get into an aircraft.

[GALWAYLION-live]

Alright, since you want to say that they are, “tankers who fly” why don’t YOU tell us your definition for CAS mains.

[Джахед]

Noflyzone

[Hudler]

I guess i will be still playing my su34 then

[gangsterism]

“just spawn an SPAA bro, literally skill issue”

[warrior412]

@gangsterism

you can say the same about people who play CAS defending CAS.

Um, no…there’s a big difference between a random YouTube user (or bot) and an actual WT player (whether you like or agree with them).

A random YouTube user is wholly unqualified to speak on WT…an actual WT player is at least one notch above that.

@gangsterism

of course they dont, but with enough discussion about some topic, it will eventually get to the devs.
but if a CAS main try their hardest to shut down any discussion, it doesnt get far.

Given how pleas for a +/- 0.7 BR matchmaking spread have gone over the last decade or so, I have to doubt that. Throwing wads of cash out in front of them as bait is likelier to succeed based on history.

@gangsterism

yes, CAS mains are people who primarily have fun playing CAS and abusing tanks.
i occasionally get in a ka50 when there is an opportunity, but im by no means a “CAS main” or even a cas player altogether. 99.9% of the time im in a tank.
on the other hand, CAS mains spend a great deal of their time in an aircraft, and see tanks as equal to aircraft at most, if not as nothing more than necessary gameplay just to get into an aircraft.

@GALWAYLION-live

Alright, since you want to say that they are, “tankers who fly” why don’t YOU tell us your definition for CAS mains.

Even though @Herojure24 doesn’t seem too fond of me, I’d say the way he characterizes and frames the matter is fair and descriptive enough I’d agree with and adopt it (though I’d probably call ‘CAS mains’ as ‘Cap-N-Fly mains’):

@Herojure24

The distinction between a CAS main and a tanker who flies is the intent. CAS mains spawn in the cheapest fastest thing to get into a plane ASAP. tankers who fly spawn in a tank and play it. Then they die and maybe spawn in a plane, who knows.

…and repeat my own take on them:

@warrior412

When you define them in this manner, I can actually agree that this is a fair characterization and distinction, particularly if you meant to refer to the goofy people who resort to cap-n-fly with the bushed up BT-5 or whatever.

Of course, I will note that the people that I see resorting to CnF with reserve vehicles and the like are generally unsuccessful and seem to be chasing hype more than anything else. Players are free to pursue CnF (per their freedom of choice), but those that I have seen don’t strike me as the brightest nor best. A good TWF doesn’t resort to wasteful CnF.

I don’t see CnF players as being too much to handle (the ones I see are usually pretty awful), but I also know they’re usually goofy players that rely on other cheesy stuff too. I’m no fan of theirs…

[RunaDacino]

@warrior412

I don’t see CnF players as being too much to handle (the ones I see are usually pretty awful), but I also know they’re usually goofy players that rely on other cheesy stuff too. I’m no fan of theirs…

The big issue with “CnF” is timing.

You’re driving this big hulking fat heavy WW2 tank into position.

There’s less than 5 minutes into the match. In fact, less than 3.

By 22:30 minutes left, you hear the distant rumble of propeller blades and the whistle of death as a bomb lands near you with no means to drive out of its radius.

Especially if your only means is to reverse at 2 km/h or drive out into the open to be shot at.

By 22:30, you havn’t even got into a position to be able to reliably impact the match in your big fat heavy tank (say a churchill.)

Edit: Notably, this is why I insist on spawning on the airfield and pushing airfields back to ARB distances (15-20 km for a ~3-4 minute flight time before being able to drop bombs on someone). It would solve this issue of planes being in the air fast enough to neuter big fat slow tanks before they get into position.

[Hudler]

Hey, not my problem that some players decided to play as bomb target for me.

And i think the .50cals should be nerfed, because the bomb targets shouldn’t shoot at me and damage my engine

[БЕИ]

@warrior412

Um, no…there’s a big difference between a random YouTube user (or bot) and an actual WT player (whether you like or agree with them).

A random YouTube user is wholly unqualified to speak on WT…an actual WT player is at least one notch above that.

You are not the actual WT player though, since you only seal club low tier, this makes you even less qualified on this subject. At least CC can actually get hundred thousand of players to vote, you on the other hand, can’t even attract a fly. You wanna downplay their role at least demonstrate somehow that you are worth more than these people you tryna downplay lmao

[Джахед]

@Smin1080p_WT
Could you please remind me why GROM-1 was removed from the game?

[Fanta_3412]

How balanced is this

[ron_23]

The grom1 was removed because it was too easy to kill bases with it in air rb

Its removal had nothing to do with ground game modes

[Джахед]

[V_Rohnin_V]

Replace “Gaijin” withy “NATO (US) mains” and it will be correct.

[gangsterism]

@warrior412

Um, no…there’s a big difference between a random YouTube user (or bot) and an actual WT player (whether you like or agree with them).

there is no difference if the youtuber has much more credibility and respect, while the WT players are writing troll comments on the forum

@warrior412

I don’t see CnF players as being too much to handle

for gaijin CnF would theoretically be easy to handle and fix. but apparently they pay enough money for gaijin to shit on the 90% of remaining players?

@RunaDacino

You’re driving this big hulking fat heavy WW2 tank into position.

There’s less than 5 minutes into the match. In fact, less than 3.

even more pathetic, there are tanks like A7V. you literally have enough time to die and spawn cas 3 times over before this tank gets to any enemies. imagine taking 7 minutes to drive to the middle of the map, just to get eaten by a CAS player

[gangsterism]

you will have CAS trolls watch this video and still unironically say that this use case is “rare” or “unusual” or “unproblematic”.
top tier is such a joke, no way im touching any nation other than russia any time soon. but by saying that, i dont want to give gaijin ideas to add turbo cancer to other nations

[warrior412]

@БЕИ

You are not the actual WT player though, since you only seal club low tier

Spoiler

Lmao, now playing 7.Xs is ‘sealclubbling low tier’ 😂

You’re only destroying your own credibility by lying about public info such as player records…everyone can see these and see what you said is bogus. You’d best apologize and recant to save face…it’s for the best.

I am an experienced, well-rounded War Thunder player that does alright while playing casually. (You care more about my record than I do (jealousy?)…do me a favor, check out the grass at your place please)

@БЕИ

At least CC can actually get hundred thousand of players to vote, you on the other hand, can’t even attract a fly.

I see you do not understand the issue at all…allow me to try explaining it to you again:

YouTube polls are problematic for a number of reasons, including the fact that you don’t even need to be a WT player to partcipate.

The flaw there should be apparent to you…I would hope.

@БЕИ

You wanna downplay their role at least demonstrate somehow that you are worth more than these people you tryna downplay lmao

That is what you took away from that? Jeez…

What I said is that people voting on commentary about WT should have relevant WT experience…such as having played the game (having a YouTube account =/= WT player). Keep in mind, that’s a low bar…that’s just getting into the game, nevermind the mode/vehicle/whatever.

All this means is that you either did not understand how/why poll was vulnerable and/or you’re happy with flawed data as long as it fits your narrative.

Neither of those is a good look.

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@gangsterism

there is no difference if the youtuber has much more credibility and respect, while the WT players are writing troll comments on the forum

Let me be direct in asking you this, because this was the main problem I raised earlier:

You don’t see an issue with non-WT players voting in a WT poll on YouTube (or wherever)?

Edit: Embarrassingly, some desperate false flaggers tried to suppress this post…they must really not want people to see all of this.

[gangsterism]

@warrior412

What I said is that people voting on commentary about WT should have relevant WT experience…such as having played the game (having a YouTube account =/= WT player).

i would assume a considerable majority of people voting on a youtube poll from a war thunder youtuber have some experience.
and also to be fair, even if these voters dont have direct experience in the game, they would be objectively correct in voting for the “CAS” option in the poll.

but regardless the poll is pointless and doesnt give us any insight into anything, so it doesnt matter.
it comes down to “plane → shoot tank → shit gameplay”, you dont need any poll for that.

[warrior412]

@gangsterism

i would assume a considerable majority of people voting on a youtube poll from a war thunder youtuber have some experience.

Yes, that’s a reasonable assumption…and I’d even agree with you about it, it is the likeliest situation.

@gangsterism

the poll is pointless and doesnt give us any insight into anything

There are limitations to what it can tell us and lingering questions about exactly how fit it is to tell us what it does; I point these things out as a matter of highlighting data quality. Some people around here don’t seem to care about or recognize why that matters…and they’re embarrassing themselves along the way.

To your credit, you’re not insisting the data is infallible as-is.

@gangsterism

top tier is such a joke, no way im touching any nation other than russia any time soon. but by saying that, i dont want to give gaijin ideas to add turbo cancer to other nations

Sentiments like this are why I always have some laughs at the top tier elitism often heard:

You’ll see people screeching about how awful balance/CAS/grinding is in top tier and then they’ll ask why you’re not there ‘enjoying’ all of that with them…