Please explain how everyone playing ground vehicles is not balanced, but one team having the Pantsir and Kh-38s is
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Wrong.
If you land and J-out to change load out like in ARB you lose your plane.
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Huh, i thought you could change the loadout in GRB as well. I’ll have to test it out sometime. Then I’ll have to partially admit fault. The plane can still help to some extent with the main gun, but might at that point be on par with top tier SPAA that can cap points but not take out tanks (a few exceptions).
No, that is wrong. It’s a net negative for Warthunder, but you want people to think it’s good cause it benefits you.
I already stated why, but you ignored it so I’ll quote it again.
CAS haters love to say “tHEreS nO AntI TO aRgueMEnTs.” I say they’re wrong and just ignore the arguments. You have proven me right . . . again.
No1 is saying that’s balanced. You’re just putting words in my mouth cause you can’t argue with my actual points.
Literally everyone, both CAS haters and CAS defenders agree that Pantsir, and especially Su-30/34 are extremely unbalanced.
you cant say why its a net negative.
also it doesnt benefit him, it just doesnt ruin his gameplay unlike CAS
no you never did
youve proven CAS haters are right
theyre unbalanced and never will be balanced, which is why TO should exist
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Well, I’m glad we can agree that TO is uncecessary.
Thank you for proving my point . . . again
Yep, Russian CAS and SPAA will never be balanced in a Russian game.
Hence why Pantsir, SLM, and Su-30/34 should be removed.
I’ll start this by saying that I haven’t been following this argument so i have very little to go by. So take my answer with a grain of salt.
But the reasons you give:
The first one you have in essence already countered with your own argument used previously:
“So just don’t play those countries in that game mode”.
Now i personally don’t want to state my personal opinion on either points in general, but i just feel like you have sort of countered your own argument with the same argument you used to counter someone else’s opposite opinion. It doesn’t really make sense to have both those stances at the same time.
The second point doesn’t really track either, there are options to deal with those things that aren’t CAS. There are players that haven’t unlocked any planes and still play ground just fine in those situations. You could argue that the options are worse, but you can’t really say that there are none. Gaijin would then just have to balance BR for a TO mode differently than RB, SB or AB.
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“Nations with bad tank line ups won’t have a chance”
You mean like how nations without proper SPAAs cannot fight Kh-38s, right? You know, like how Israel had to use the Imp., Italy still suffers the OTOMATIC, and prior to the radar thing, America, Britain, France, and Sweden could not shoot down munitions reliably with the ADATS and ItO.
Also, I don’t know why you don’t think Italy has good line ups. 4.0 sees them with the Turan III, StuG, Sherman, M24, and M44. 2.7 sees them with the Zrínyi, Turan I, and that funny tractor gun. 3.0 has the P-40 and Panzer III. Higher tiers have Leopards and T-72, 10.3 has Leopard 2A4, Strela, and Ariete, 11.7/12.0 has three (four if you count the premium) Ariete, Leopard 2A7, Centauro 120s, KF-41.
Now what Italy lacks is CAS, CAP, and SPAAs. So what you’re saying is that since Italy cannot fight back or CAS, that means they should continue to suffer? Even though your TO argument hinges on Italy having a bad line up.
Your argument of “TO mode has bade line ups for countries” falls flat when it comes to other countries not having CAS (China, Japan, Germany to an extent, Italy, Britain to an extent, Israel up until top tier) and SPAAs (Italy, Israel prior to SPYDER, Britain, Japan prior to 12.0, and large parts of America besides CLAWS, LAV, and Gepard).
So, again, your argument of “CAS is needed because Italy will be bad in TO mode” is bad.
Lmao
Nations like Italy lack actual lineups at almost all brs. Toptier screws everyone regardless of nation.
I agree. Kh-38 should be removed
Answer still stands:
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He explicitly asked why TO wouldnt be balanced, and I gave a reason. Although the argument of just don’t play TO with any minor nations is valid, I personally believe that a game mode unplayable by half the nations in WarThunder is just a bad game mode
top tier ground rb
where more than half of the nations dont have a good AA or good CAS
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And many feel exactly the same about the current modes and not having a viable way to counter CAS with many of the countries.
(Again, refraining from stating my own opinion)
It’s just odd to use an argument against something when said argument can be applied both ways.
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Wrong. It’s not a negative, it is growth and progress for the game, allowing more content for players, as well as giving enviroment for proper cas with realistic and powerfull weaponry, that is currently nerfed to “balance” ground players.
Wrong. You are ignoring all arguments and you can’t back up any of your claims.
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I mean i personally love italy and don’t find it gimped in any way, it’s one of the most diverse tech tree’s in the game with many tanks able to hit well above their BR, you have so many vehicles i’ve never struggled to make a br work.
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The lack of counters at toptier isn’t an issue with CAS, not is it an issue that TO will solve.
Nope, it’s the opposite.
Within a 1.0 BR range, any tank can kill any other tank (defined as light, medium, heavy and Tank destroyer).
Now, sometimes you need to get creative like shooting off someone’s gun and tracks and then call artillery on their gridsquare using squad marker.
This is assymetrically balanced.
Analogous to a Bf109F4 being able to beat a Spitfire Mark II or Vb despite getting absolutely clowned on in a simple turnfight.
It is also analogous to a Fw190A8 taking on a F4U-4 and finding some narrow niche where it can finally beat that monster.
It is also analogoues to a Yak9K managing to take down a Ki-84.
What’s common in all these examples?
You stay in a single vehicle and take on another vehicle that’s up to 1.0 BR range above you using creative tactics and narrow performance advantages to win what should heavily favour your opponent.
This is balanced.
What is not balanced is taking something like a Challenger or a Comet - tanks without rooftop MGs - and expecting them to beat an enemy aircraft.
The only way the Comet or Challenger will ever beat an enemy aircraft is if that plane crashes into them during a misjudged dive and they got clipped by coaxial .303 MG.
This is not balanced.
US tanks theoretically have a ‘chance’ at beating enemy aircraft thanks to doctrinal decision to put an anti-air .50 cal on the roof but that anti-air .50 cal is only going to kill people with questionable approach to flying (they’re flying low and slow rather than maintaining 450-550 km/h, 60 degree or higher dive angles and a loiter altitude of 1.0-2.0 km)
This again is not balanced.
You wouldn’t consider a 2.7 Yak 1 fighting a 5.0 Bf109 G14 balanced, would you?
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Jumbo and King Tiger
No, that Bf 109 is royally screwed
