CAS problem

[RunaDacino]

@noamax

Define balance

Air simulator battles between BRs 3.0 to 5.7.

There are a few ‘meta’ or borderline overpowered vehicles, yes. However, even these vehicles remain beatable with the right approach with BR - 1 vehicles.

The balance is assymetric, with different performance envelopes drastically changing who has the high probability of winning given an encounter but the main decisive factor is player skill.

I have seen a skilled duelist in a Bf109 K4 enter a dogfight with a P-47 and the two had a very close dogfight that the K4 won on a hair’s marginn because the P-47 player’s aim was barely not good enough.

I have had a Bf 109 F4 vs Spitfire Mk IIb where I foolishly started the fight at equal energy in a head-on merge (thinking it was a P-51), promptly got the spitfire get on my tail and then win the fight due to applying some hail-mary last-ditch maneuvers that let me get behind the spitfire. Technically speaking, the Bf 109 F4 won the turnfight.

I’ve witnessed P-51C10s utterly humiliate A6M3s flown by skilled pilots despite common cries of “Japan OP!”

Such encounters are dime a dozen in prop tier air sim - where theoretical advantages fizzle out to a coinflip of whoever made the right decision at the right time making it thrilling and fun.

I’ve even seen people uptier F6F-5s into 5.0-6.0 lobbies to dogfight Bf109G14s and K4s. Or Yak-1s to fight Bf 109 G2/G6 because that’s the historical matchup

Even such dominant creatures like the Ki-84 and Lf Mk IX can be beaten without being forced to swap vehicles, it may just get very annoying and drawn out (I’ve managed to kill one once with yak-9K of all things)

Whereas in ground RB?

If you try to play a tank, you can have the very same experience if you only face enemy tanks. Absolute worst case, you track the enemy tank, knock out its barrel and call artillery on its position and wait for the fireworks.

However, the moment you introduce planes the no amount of skill-diff in your favour will ever overcome the plane’s inherent advantages if you don’t have a AA-style rooftop MG, and rooftop MG itself can be nullified through a very low skillfloor of sticking to 60+ degree dive bombing approaches and keeping your speed very high (450-550 km/h) @ 1-2 km altitudes.

[noamax]

@ULQ_LOVER

So You mean that is balanced in PvP game that in order to do something You have to die?

So a mechanic that allows a player You have killed to be immortal when facing You, should be ok with You right?

“Immortal” bro u overreacting
Yea u respawn and collect the kill
There is alot of pvp games like that if u want to change role or characters u die
What do u expect? ur tank to have anti air missile on the roof?

@ULQ_LOVER

If it was only a „part” nothing bad would happen out of it. But we all really know that majority of players would enjoy it.

I dont think so i think its just a very loud part of the players cuz thos who are ok with that arent saying anything in the forum

But sure thats why i suggest to test it

[noamax]

I aint reading all that bro
I allready said that in low mid tier there should be a change
And u want to play with a stick is another factor

[Hudler]

It’s literally what you want and what you say

You want tankers to suffer and “if you don’t like it don’t play the game”

AND

You want CAS players to suffer with further nerfs to make their planes weaker and weaker.

So you want it all end up with:

• Tankers angry, because they still die to cas they can’t and don’t want to deal with
• Cassers angry, because their weaponry is being nerfed further and further due to “balancing things that are unable to balance”

Thus, you hate literal all the GRB player base.

[Hudler]

@Pangolin_Fan

Issues from Gajin’s perspective:

There’s no money in it

[gangsterism]

@Pangolin_Fan

There’s been over a dozen but CAS haters always ignore em cause they know they have no counter points.

yet when i asked anyone to give an example, there was nothing
so if you want to easily prove me wrong, just give an example and i will stop asking for TO.

@XxJax0NeinxX-live

Okay, so what you are saying is we need to keep CAS as the only mode, otherwise people will not play CAS lobbies?

this is the only supreme CAS argument

@noamax

I think top tier is fine now

just stop talking about tank-only or CAS, its better for everyone. everything you say is wrong

@Pangolin_Fan

Pretty hard to make counter points when the entire CAS hater argument is

pretty hard to make counter points when there are none lmfao
oh wait no, im wrong. there are plenty of counter points. the best one being: “i like to abuse tank players and my queue time will go up 5 seconds, aka it will definitively kill the game forever and ever”

@Pangolin_Fan

Gajin will have to devoat even more time and effort to balancing TO (and Gajin is already extremely slow when it comes to balancing and fixes).

balancing for TO and mixed is the same, done at the same time, for the same gamemode.

@Pangolin_Fan

Due to the reason mentioned above, CAS balance will get even worse.

it cant get worse

@Pangolin_Fan

Nations with bad tank lineups e.g Italy will have nothing to fill gaps, resulting in lineups of 2 or 3 tanks, whilst other nations could have 5 or more for a given BR.

right, so clog them up with CAS or what?

@Pangolin_Fan

Kinda ties into the first reason, but TO will lack the tools to get rid of campers, spawn campers, and heavy tanks

we do not need CAS to get rid of campers or spawn campers. this is what map design (and “skill”) are for

@Pangolin_Fan

TO does not solve any balance issues. CAS haters love to spam TO bs, which makes any discussion of actual CAS balance near impossible.

it solves the issue of having to play against CAS

@Pangolin_Fan

TO obviously isn’t going to be added. Unlike other features (e.g missiles) which Gajin said won’t be added, there’s no money in it, and so TO suggestions are just a waste of everybody’s time.

true, they dont want to add it because CAS is a toxic way to force players to pay more money

@Pangolin_Fan

The issue is CAS haters stop CAS from being nerfed since they flood the forums with legitimately insane ideas. Any good balance ideas is drowned out in the idiocracy.

this is the same as people saying TO will never happen

[gangsterism]

@TheMightySardine

Planes help to get rid of that one camper controlling half of map from his spot where tanks cant really get him out of

map design is out of fashion in 2025, we need godmode to get rid of campers

@noamax

Define balance

ground vehicles killing ground vehicles in ways that resemble “skill”

@noamax

But if u get killed occasionally bcuz there is some spaa lacking or even just none its ok and balanced cuz thats the game

that doesnt have to be the game though.
a tank will never defend itself against kh38, and it doesnt matter if there is or isnt a SPAA.
CAS killing a tank will never be fair in any universe

@TheMightySardine

If you die to Khs ur dumb tho

yea for sure, kh38 are well known to be very dodgeable

@noamax

Or spawn spaa from the start

yea man, we all signed up to sit at spawn for literally the entire game staring at a green circle.
insanely fun gameplay, fuck tanks. i never wanted to play tanks in the tank game.
joke aside, garbage argument

[noamax]

Wow
Likw wow how did u get that
I want the game to be balanced

If cas is op in low tiers then it should be nerfed
Increasing the sp makes alot of sanse (only for dumb ammunition for low mid tiers)
Gbu at top tier=dumb bomb for low tier
Now if u define tankers by ppl who play only tanks and want no cas at all in this game then yea i dont think u belong to this game
Cas is part of this game if u like it or not
Im a tank main so how come i dont get mad when i get cased?
Cuz thats what i signed for when i joined this game

[Hudler]

@noamax

I want the game to be balanced

And literally everybody told you that your BALANCING will not solve anything.

The nature of cas means it IT UNABLE TO BALANCE.

You literally do not read anything that people tell you.

Why do you even engage if you do not want to read what other people respond?

[noamax]

Who is anybody? The 4 ppl here?
I read what u saying its just dumb
U asking the game to be smt its not

[ron_23]

So because you are okay with Cas means everyone is?

[gangsterism]

@noamax

Im a tank main so how come i dont get mad when i get cased?
Cuz thats what i signed for when i joined this game

admitting that youre part of the system and youre content with being abused by something you cant defend yourself, saying that its physically impossible to change while it would actually take gaijin literally 10 minutes to make TO available as an official gamemode.

CAS against tanks is inherently shit gameplay, always was, always will be, and no amount of cope will ever change this, there is nothing you can say to prove otherwise

@noamax

U asking the game to be smt its not

colloquially known as “asking for a game update” btw

[gangsterism]

@Hudler

And literally everybody told you that your BALANCING will not solve anything.

The nature of cas means it IT UNABLE TO BALANCE.

it seems like CAS defenders will never understand that CAS is impossible to ““balance”” when it goes up against ground vehicles

[ron_23]

And then they start crying once a country gets an AA that is able to fight back

Look at the IRIS-T SLM

[noamax]

No and i didnt said that
I also said i dont mind gaijin testing TO mode
But ppl demands it like the game used to be without cas and gaijin made the mistake of adding it
No its one of the game best featuers and im sure if not mixed battle many players wouldnt come in the first place

[noamax]

It seeme like cas haters cant understand that balance doesnt mean u should be fully immune to it

[gangsterism]

@noamax

I also said i dont mind gaijin testing TO mode

so why constantly argument against it here

@noamax

It seeme like cas haters cant understand that balance doesnt mean u should be fully immune to it

thats exactly what balance means, and nothing else.
of course the circle of life in mixed battles can also be “balanced” but there is always someone who cant do anything and is the first to be killed.

but regardless of CAS balance, i want to play against tanks.
there is no reason that a salty opponent who i outskilled can jump into CAS and wipe me with zero counterplay

[Fragal]

There is no argument that will make CAS appealing in ground RB for me, I hate dying to invisible things 2 miles up or 6 miles away or having barely left their airfield but this is my opinion which is shared by friends and many players i see in battles daily and within this forum from the many who post in here to the many posts i see cropping up daily on the exact same thing only to be locked and discarded almost immediately, If i wanted to fly planes i would play air rb, or play dcs or il2 which offer a fuller richer experience, i play ground to play tanks that’s the appeal, that’s why i started playing tanks many many years ago.

I would like the choice of an additional tank only mode not the removal or replacement of the current mode but the choice of being able to leave the cancer that is cas behind.

[Hudler]

@noamax

i dont mind gaijin testing TO mode

He says this, and then starts hating on TO and people who want it.

@noamax

gaijin made the mistake of adding it

Tank only was literally in game for couple of months after releasing tanks game mode.

@noamax

No its one of the game best featuers and im sure if not mixed battle many players wouldnt come in the first place

What even is this supposed to mean? Why is it so hard to understand, that these people will play in their mixed game mode?
Is it just in your nature, that you don’t want everybody to be happy and you need to have some parts of playerbase abused?

@noamax

It seeme like cas haters cant understand that balance doesnt mean u should be fully immune to it

It seems like cas abusers can’t understand, that cas is not possible to be properly balanced due to its nature, and all balance attemts will lead only to artificial nerfs to planes.

I am a cas abuser myself btw

Flag system abusement

[gangsterism]

@Hudler

I am a cas abuser myself btw

when i get to spawn a KA-50 when there is no enemy SPAA, the game becomes literally pure point-and-click, i just click on people, wait for a few seconds, and then kill after kill after kill.
zero skill, zero IQ, zero tactics, zero logic, just free kills.
the tank players cant see me and if they do, its guaranteed death anyway because they will never defend themselves.

so basically CAS is the cancer of the game, but i am NOT against people who want to play it, i just want a TO gamemode to avoid inherent imbalance.