CAS problem

[FlyingDoctor]

And I’m surprised the thread has even survived considering every other CAS thread gets redirected to the other CAS threads because the CAS threads are almost posted daily…

[ULQ_LOVER]

@FlyingDoctor

This ‘yapping’ is why we have a forum, and you can’t be upset at someone using the forum… To be like this, is a sign that you have an issue yourself.

This is something I have said all along, if you’re on a forum to discuss, and all you can do is mock, deride, and get angry at the mere posting of someone, then you should be looking at yourself…

Oh the irony

Still waiting for proper discussion

@ULQ_LOVER

AI AAA and bigger maps only makes the problem appear less not fix it for people wanting just to play tanks. We already talked about it.

Do we want to solve the issue or sweep it under the rug?

TO solves the issue by default as people who just want to play tanks could play it and in combined mode only people who like combined aspect of the game would remain. It would solve some issues with balance of the teams.

SBMM solves the issue of different players skill, meaning that it would be less likely that team would meet a pro who can destroy them without them being able to do much about It.

AI AAA would be either too good or to bad, meaning that it would either make people liking the air aspect of the game angry (as they would no longer be able to do what they see as fun/look at the helipad AA case) or too bad meaning people could just ignore It.

Bigger maps only make flight to the battlefield longer so people instead of dying in „x” time to planes would die in „1.2x” time. People who like air aspect of the game already don’t like it how long they need to fly in prop planes above 6.7 - so aleady an issue that doesn’t solve anything for people wanting to just plan tanks.

New objectives for air would only matter for people who don’t want to attack players and You have to remember that there would be limited number of them. Again the same case as with bigger maps/longer flight time.

You can always explain how what I have said would not be the case. I would love to discuss it.

[fluffydolphin11]

buddy, you camping in a heli behind a hill or flying at 40,000 ft launching missiles that players cant avoid is not the same nor as respectable as actually using your brain in a tank on tank fight. destroying someone in a fair manner doesn’t ruin the game for others, launching missiles from space that tanks for the most part cant see or avoid IS ruining the game. also the only people who don’t think cas isnt an issue in GROUND battles are the people playing cas.

[FlyingDoctor]

@A_Larsen

Like the voice telling you when the enemy controls most of the capture points, a voice could announce when the enemy seems to be dominant in the air.

As someone who commonly calls air, and prior to the air alert, used to call air manually, this is ideal… However many ignore that, and don’t ‘want’ to use it, so it can be for nothing.

But in saying that there are a lot of people taking out SPAA more recently, and it’s a lot less ‘vocal’ in the chats complaining about them being bombed or that air is a problem.

@ULQ_LOVER

Oh the irony

Still waiting for proper discussion

Again, not with you as you’ve demonstrated so many times that your ‘discussion’ is mere dictation and riling up peopel to attack people based on your definition of thier worth.

@fluffydolphin11

buddy, you camping in a heli behind a hill or flying at 40,000 ft launching missiles that players cant avoid is not the same nor as respectable as actually using your brain in a tank on tank fight.

Mhhhmmmmmmm

Who’d have thought there were actual viable options in this if you ‘use your brain’…

The urge for you to villify me and make out that I’m the heli pilot is peak ignorance to the points made… I can object to the pandering to the victim here without needing to be the person who is causing all the complaining.

I merely don’t think that it’s a good idea to make this sort of want a thing.

@fluffydolphin11

destroying someone in a fair manner doesn’t ruin the game for others, launching missiles from space that tanks for the most part cant see or avoid IS ruining the game. also the only people who don’t think cas isnt an issue in GROUND battles are the people playing cas.

‘fair’… What you deem to be fair isn’t fair in others eyes, and when you get them with a tank that they can’t handle, then it’s unfair to them, things become rapidly ‘unfun’ and peopel then get aggressive about the game because the game isn’t what they want MERELY BECAUSE THEY DIED TO IT.

It’s a vicious cycle, and only echo chambers come from the gatekeeping and the villification attacks.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@FlyingDoctor

Again, not with you as you’ve demonstrated so many times that your ‘discussion’ is mere dictation and riling up peopel to attack people based on your definition of thier worth.

I will again post it so maybe we can get this topic back on rails and not destroy another one:

@ULQ_LOVER

AI AAA and bigger maps only makes the problem appear less not fix it for people wanting just to play tanks. We already talked about it.

Do we want to solve the issue or sweep it under the rug?

TO solves the issue by default as people who just want to play tanks could play it and in combined mode only people who like combined aspect of the game would remain. It would solve some issues with balance of the teams.

SBMM solves the issue of different players skill, meaning that it would be less likely that team would meet a pro who can destroy them without them being able to do much about It.

AI AAA would be either too good or to bad, meaning that it would either make people liking the air aspect of the game angry (as they would no longer be able to do what they see as fun/look at the helipad AA case) or too bad meaning people could just ignore It.

Bigger maps only make flight to the battlefield longer so people instead of dying in „x” time to planes would die in „1.2x” time. People who like air aspect of the game already don’t like it how long they need to fly in prop planes above 6.7 - so aleady an issue that doesn’t solve anything for people wanting to just plan tanks.

New objectives for air would only matter for people who don’t want to attack players and You have to remember that there would be limited number of them. Again the same case as with bigger maps/longer flight time.

You can always explain how what I have said would not be the case. I would love to discuss it.

Maybe one day You will be able to actually discuss things

[FlyingDoctor]

Maybe you just need to stop trying so hard to make out you are open to discussion when it’s clear you aren’t, and only are when it favours your wants…

I can hold my opinion, but you think that I need to bow down to you or that you have to prove me wrong at every post, and that is your misinterpretation of discussion, and your angle of harrassment.

Maybe one day you’ll actually grasp genuine discussion rather than feeding a group to make a dogpile through passing on that misinterpretation.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@FlyingDoctor

Maybe you just need to stop trying so hard to make out you are open to discussion when it’s clear you aren’t…

@ULQ_LOVER

AI AAA and bigger maps only makes the problem appear less not fix it for people wanting just to play tanks. We already talked about it.

Do we want to solve the issue or sweep it under the rug?

TO solves the issue by default as people who just want to play tanks could play it and in combined mode only people who like combined aspect of the game would remain. It would solve some issues with balance of the teams.

SBMM solves the issue of different players skill, meaning that it would be less likely that team would meet a pro who can destroy them without them being able to do much about It.

AI AAA would be either too good or to bad, meaning that it would either make people liking the air aspect of the game angry (as they would no longer be able to do what they see as fun/look at the helipad AA case) or too bad meaning people could just ignore It.

Bigger maps only make flight to the battlefield longer so people instead of dying in „x” time to planes would die in „1.2x” time. People who like air aspect of the game already don’t like it how long they need to fly in prop planes above 6.7 - so aleady an issue that doesn’t solve anything for people wanting to just plan tanks.

New objectives for air would only matter for people who don’t want to attack players and You have to remember that there would be limited number of them. Again the same case as with bigger maps/longer flight time.

You can always explain how what I have said would not be the case. I would love to discuss it.

Still waiting for the discussion about it, I have already asked You so many times to talk about this things as You were the one talking about them in first place, maybe one day:

@FlyingDoctor

you’ll actually grasp genuine discussion

Or maybe You know that I’m right in this or just don’t have anything to back up Your claims? Otherwise we could already discuss this things and talk about how they would work/not instead of getting another topic destroyed again.

[fluffydolphin11]

hmmm. well good job shooting a missile! but the fact that you think that clip completely validifies everything u have said is pretty funny. there’s a reason AAs are the least played ground faction. because they are useless. also, what Is an Abrams or t80 supposed to do when they have no idea a missile is barreling towards them at mach 100000. if AAs are so incredible and solve CAS completely why is it still a big issue?

[ULQ_LOVER]

@fluffydolphin11

hmmm. well good job shooting a missile! but the fact that you think that clip completely validifies everything u have said is pretty funny.

Not to mention that a lot of videos backed up by in-game stats are not good evidence for some, the clip works just fine!

[FlyingDoctor]

It doesn’t need to validate ‘everything’ I said, but you saying that I ignored everything is just straight ignorant to the post…

@fluffydolphin11

also, what Is an Abrams or t80 supposed to do when they have no idea a missile is barreling towards them at mach 100000.

Exageration doesn’t do you any favours, and other players on your team can also spawn SPAA.

@fluffydolphin11

if AAs are so incredible and solve CAS completely why is it still a big issue?

Because people deem themselves not needing to use them, yet still complain when they get got, and make out to everyone that they aren’t able to do anything, so it compounds the more that the afflicted keep listening to those who echo their concerns because they merely echo their problem…

Then when someone says anything counter to that, they try rip into them because they got told that it’s not a thing to do.

Much like how this conversation has gone.

Just because there’s a lot of people making the statement, doesn’t mean it’s actually true, and that’s where this constant posting of the CAS threads is actually a problem.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@FlyingDoctor

For anyone really interested
https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/315917285828591664
It includes:

1. Sitting and camping at the spawn up to the 8:21 when he bails out while his team gets destroyed.
2. Dying to a tank while on spawn in SPAA
3. Spawning SPAA again (killing 2 spawncamping light tanks, great job!)
4. In the end dying to another tank, and losing the game.

I must say if not that plane, You would got hit by that another rocket, lucky for You!

Wanted to check other replays that showcases shooting down rockets, but I got something different:

It was interesting to me since radar should be able to pick that helis

[fluffydolphin11]

i mean i play AAs and basically every match i have multiple AAs on my team, yet somehow a su34 either flying in the stratosphere or genuinely doing extremely close air support manages to kill me. so either AAs suck, or everyone in every single one of my matches that uses AAs is stupid.
also i dont think cas should be removed per say. i think that helis and planes shouldn’t be able to be spawned until 5 mins through the match, AND planes costing significantly more sp to spawn.

[ULQ_LOVER]

@fluffydolphin11

also i dont think cas should be removed per say. i think that helis and planes shouldn’t be able to be spawned until 5 mins through the match, AND planes costing significantly more sp to spawn.

Instead of doing that and destroying fun for players who enjoy current state of things there is nothing wrong in just adding a TO mode.

[fluffydolphin11]

true. that would be the best, but I doubt the snail would do that since they get a lot of soul- I mean money from people buying planes only for CAS. so something else will probably have to be thought of.

[MotorolaCRO]

@FlyingDoctor

Because people deem themselves not needing to use them, yet still complain when they get got, and make out to everyone that they aren’t able to do anything

Using something that can’t get the job done is not interesting.

[FlyingDoctor]

Interesting isn’t the name of the game here, and if you want to survive you take on the roles necessary… Making out they can’t leads to a won’t to come back to this sort of thread being posted and your responses to mere advice.

Along with dismissing the points made prior about the suggestions, and tactics to use, like you do, to just further dwell on the ‘issue’ compared to actually thinking and making effort.

I’m sorry, but this back and forth doesn’t make anything different, you’re just constantly trying to do the same as ULQ, just to get everyone to say what you want to be heard.

That is the true name of the game in these CAS threads…

[FlyingDoctor]

@ULQ_LOVER

It includes:

1. Sitting and camping at the spawn up to the 8:21 when he bails out while his team gets destroyed.
2. Dying to a tank while on spawn in SPAA
3. Spawning SPAA again (killing 2 spawncamping light tanks, great job!)
4. In the end dying to another tank, and losing the game.

I must say if not that plane, You would got hit by that another rocket, lucky for You!

Trust you to rip apart any sort of effort here with a taint of negativity…

Sitting and camping I was actually looking for helicopters, and holding back because of the match mode… Nothing wrong with this… As you would’ve seen the flanker got got…

Dying to a tank whilst on spawn in an SPAA was a flank on the other side… Unlike you, and others here, I don’t have issue with this sort of thing and I have no idea why you want to paint it out as anything but unfortunate.

@ULQ_LOVER

Spawning SPAA again (killing 2 spawncamping light tanks, great job!)

It needed to be done, and you’d be a fool to not pay attention to the match situation like this… Again,. what’s the issue?

@ULQ_LOVER

In the end dying to another tank, and losing the game.

Again, what’s the issue about this?

@ULQ_LOVER

Wanted to check other replays that showcases shooting down rockets, but I got something different:

It was interesting to me since radar should be able to pick that helis

A heli that had crept around the flank and was actually near behind us won’t be picked up…

But the only thing you want to do is paint me out as skillless and that’s just you being the negative nancy you always are…

Like you don’t have a bad match, or ever had to learn something… What an arogant piece of work you are…

[MotorolaCRO]

@FlyingDoctor

Interesting isn’t the name of the game here, and if you want to survive you take on the roles necessary…

Just because you can in theory take on the necessary role (taking out an AA), doesn’t mean your vehicle is capable at being a counter. This is the problem you aren’t understanding.

@FlyingDoctor

Making out they can’t leads to a won’t to come back to this sort of thread being posted and your responses to mere advice.

I’m not making out anything, I’m just stating facts.

@FlyingDoctor

A heli that had crept around the flank and was actually near behind us won’t be picked up…

This map has weird helipad positions.
Your radar should be able to pick up helicopters anywhere though.

[Aash_139]

@A_Larsen

I think it would be better to have some kind of indication of needed forces. Like the voice telling you when the enemy controls most of the capture points, a voice could announce when the enemy seems to be dominant in the air. That would increase the chance of SPAA spawning when they are needed, and reduce the frustration of ground players being repeatedly hammered by CAS. Also, SPAAs capable of actually responding to the air threat is sorely needed in the game.

This isn’t that bad of an idea. It’s a small thing but could have some actual impact. It certainly wouldn’t hurt the game in any way.

@ULQ_LOVER

nothing wrong in just adding a TO mode.

We already have close to a dozen separate modes in the game. Is adding another one absolutely necessary? What makes you think this radical solution would be good for the game in general and not only for people who play tanks?

Regardless of what you think, reality is - CAS is not going anywhere. It’s just not going to happen.

@ULQ_LOVER

SBMM solves the issue of different players skill, meaning that it would be less likely that team would meet a pro who can destroy them without them being able to do much about It.

Alright, I’m not entirely against this. I like the idea of balanced teams and matches that don’t end in one team getting stomped. However, let’s give this idea more thought.

I like to play with friends. We usually play different nations, which leads to queue time in the range of a couple of minutes depending on the time of day. We are okay with this. What do you think would happen to our queue times if we introduced a new matchmaker and maybe a separate mode for tanks at the same time?

What I’m trying to demonstrate is that these radical solutions, while appearing rational on the surface, usually tend to introduce more problems than they solve in reality. So let’s approach these issues in a more delicate manner.

[onwardgraph]

i dont think cas should be “removed” but i do this the AA system for top tier anti air vics need to be heavily buffed so you can as least shoot the jets that are 25000 feet away since that is how far they are able to lock onto you and drop bombs from. there are many vics that for some reason you cant do that like an example the LAV-AD for usa it can only lock onto enemy planes from 15k or closer and by that time its too late they already locked onto you and dropped their bombs