The statistics show aircraft results as 7,251 aircraft lost for 6,219 ground units killed.
In a strict reading of the results (presuming that all aircraft were intending to hit GFs as some claim–which is a reach), that’d mean aircraft have a negative exchange rate.
You must consider all causes of deaths to assess effectiveness, not just your chosen ones.
I pretty much never leave my aircraft (except, rarely, at the base) and seldom crash (unless it’s an unserious night).
As I stated…I was referring to matches as a whole considering other players’ results. You need to read the whole post before replying…you missed that part.
Open tops are relatively few compared to armored vehicles, whereas the effect of bomb blasts is pretty much universal to aircraft (their type doesn’t matter, only their position does).
All of the data I cited came from that same table and is plainly visible. If you do not comprehend what was said with the figures that were plainly provided by that table and commentated on by myself…it cannot be helped.
You failed to read the data, I dealt with it just fine. (If you need assistance with it, contact me via PM…don’t bloat the thread.)
Incorrect, particularly given how the hype portrays matters. If the hype was correct (or even reasonable), aircraft should account for a far greater percentage of tank deaths than 1/10th of what other GFs account for.
That the data historically and now manually collected and observed doesn’t reflect anything close to what the hype portends (below the mess of 9.0+) signals CAS hype has always been exaggerated. (Based on the 2017 data about 5.7 during all of
The statistics show that 3939 aircrafts were lost to ground units while 6219 ground units were lost to the air.
Meaning that overall aircrafts destroy more ground units than other way around.
This is what I’m saying from the beggining.
When talking about effectivness against certain type, You don’t count other types in, that is just misleading, otherwise we would need to count ground vs ground stats too.
So You should have something to back it up, still waiting!
Considering most of SPAA at lower B.R. are open-top that makes a huge difference.
The only one that failed something, is the one not being able to understand that we are talking about ground vs air to air vs ground stats, not air vs air ones.
You can’t decide if an air unit is effective agains the ground by how it deals with the air. Otherwise spitfires would be the best planes around.
Sorry but I know what I’m discussing.
If You are going to still argue that the number 3939 is bigger than 6219, or that air vs air stats are being discussed, there is no point in further replying. I hope @Forum Moderators are going to clean the topic further on if the replies are going to be just in order to bloat and destroy the topic.
Data is visible for everyone
So anyone wanting to see what historical data showed about ground vs air to air vs ground stats, can see it.
Do you have any way to differentiate ASB & GSB, ARB & GRB?
Do you also have a way to differentiate dying to airfield AAA? Because I swear, that’s the worst part of trying to fly in GRB the rare times I thought to try and fly CAP. I dive on CAS, shoot them down and move to extend. After a mere 5-7 kilometers of shallow climb at ~6-8 m/s at 600 km/h, my plane turns yellow or dead because some amazingly smart person decided to put an airfield right next to the battlefield.
Moving those stupid airfields back some 20 km even at prop tiers would solve a significant amount of my complaints voiced earlier in the thread, alongside forcing airfield spawn. 20 km distance means a ~4 minute time to arrive at the battlefield at a leisurely 300 km/h constant IAS climb you’d expect in most 3.0+ aircraft. Heavy/Strategic bombers get to keep their high altitude spawn, but they still need to make the distance.
Also regarding bombs,
I fail to see how those would affect aircraft other than when you dive on a bomber and they carpetbomb the ground beneath them and hit you through splash damage. With a bomb releaes altitude around 500-900 meters, you shouldn’t be anywhere near your own bomb’s splash radius.
If I’m reading this data correctly,
In the end I was correct that Tanks/SPAA die to CAS 5% to 20% of the time and the remaining 80% to 95% tanks dies from tanks. They fluctuate over time.
As for that difference on 6,212 and 3,939, makes sense since a lot of players struggle shooting them down.
It is very old data so I wouldn’t take it for granted, but data shows just how GF RBs mode works as in order to spawn in a plane You first have to die in ground unit.
And many times don’t have a chance to do so, like nashorn against an air unit that doesn’t attack him from an angle he can aim at.
No, you started summing selected columns because it fits better to support your arguments. And the statistics are written out quite clearly.
Only one of your calculations is correct, that is 7,351 planes were lost.
yeah, this discussion is definitely like a conversation between a deaf and a mute.
I have the impression that the problem that has been completely ignored is that as subsequent “eras” were introduced, the CAS problem evolved. Currently, the biggest problem is at the “top” - where one Su-30/34 changes everything. And there is no effective counter-weapon against it, to tell the truth.
You cant focus on ground threats when you got wiped by an orbital strike.
Nor can you do anything to prevent it.
Ground vehicles cant fight against CAS and whether there is a SPAA is not relevant
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I did not count accidents and the data set referenced refers only to RB GFs.
I do not have the means to filter the historical that way…offhand, I believe the airfield AAA was counted under the ‘ground’ billing.
A player by the name of Sidiros was the overseer of the site that generated that data at the time; I believe he is inactive nowadays.
Without delving into the topic of airfield location too deeply…I do not believe a 20 km movement of the airfield (that’s a 40km greater distance for a sortie) is justifiable at prop tiers–particularly if SP costs were to remain as they are. Even for early jet tiers that’d be a hard bargain.
As this isn’t a thread about airfields, I’ll leave it at that.
To the matter of bombs…many (most?) bomb releases seen in game occur below 1000ft AGL. Often bomb detonations (usually 500kg+) pose a far greater danger to aircraft than to tanks, even when distances are similar. This is problematic, especially given that tanks have their repair mechanic as an effective buff while aircraft do not.
Based on this, I suspect the relationship of bomb detonations and aircraft is modeled incorrectly…it appears highly doubtful that it’s modeled correctly as-is.
Who is denying you the ability to play your tanks? Nobody is blocking you from playing your tanks, you can do so to your heart’s content!
What other tankers (or, commonly, tankers who fly) are explaining is the two most obvious active countermeasures you can take…not ones you must pursue. You are free to use SPAA, CAP or whatever…or to pass on it. As I said earlier, you can often simply ignore CAS and get away with it–the odds are in your favor.
You can make your own selections as you wish, however you wish…but you are responsible for what happens as a result of your choices. That’s how it is in life and in WT.
I understand the data very well; it’s been discussed on and off for many years and it’s been the centerpiece of many arguments many times.
The data, when read for what it states, discredits CAS hype. Certainly in reference to its own time and arguably it serves as evidence discrediting it in the bigger scope of time too.
If you’re below 1000ft AGL with a bomb of ~500kg or larger, you’re likelier more prone to blast damage than a ground vehicle at a similar distance (which also enjoys tanks’ repair mechanics, forgiving as they are).
If you’ll point out which calculation of mine you claim is incorrect, perhaps we can look into the matter further. As-is, I stand by what I said.
As the ever-changing, one-upping of higher tiers (especially 9.X+) goes, I’d be inclined to agree with you. The top echelons of the game have always been ‘problematic’ on balance and probably always will be:
When you have ___ with their ___ one-upping ___ and their ___, you’ll inevitably have ___ on top until ___ with their new ___ arrives…and so on.
That’s the problem with ever-increasing technologies…every advantage is eventually countered. Balance is ‘hard to achieve’ at best.
Edit: Embarrassingly, some false flaggers have been at it again…they need hobbies.
You forgetting that I can keep getting shit on by AGMs when I was trying to play something I enjoyed the most, are we even playing the same game? Also your entire WT experience made up of 70k matches seal clubbing half the lobby who just got the game 6 hours ago, should only start talking when you gain more experience playing different br to understand how bad things are, else you would look like someone who genuinely don’t realize you are out of your depth.
To be honest, I believe that, on one hand, Gaijin intentionally ties rewards to survival time to extend players’ playtime, resulting in far lower rewards for aggressive kills followed by death compared to securing a single kill and then idling for 5-10 minutes. This encourages players to camp rather than engage in vehicle interactions. Secondly, I think ground battles could draw inspiration from clan wars by allowing players to use fixed-wing aircraft (with restricted loadouts) at the start of a match. This would make interactions between anti-air and air vehicles more meaningful. When both sides have a certain number of anti-air units and fixed-wing aircraft, ground attack would no longer be the primary focus. Instead, the priority would shift to surviving, engaging enemy fixed-wing aircraft to protect ground forces, rather than the current one-sided domination of ground targets. Additionally, increasing the distance between airfields and the ground combat zone could also be a mitigating solution.
none of this nuance matters though.
i go play tank and i blow up because of a plane 20 km away.
not everyone wants to rot in an SPAA, its as simple as that
Movimento es Vida, Movement is life. Keep on the move and your total deaths to CAS will drop like a rock. Also looking up every once and awhile will help too.
